Thinking of the book as political reportage, with a focus on the reporting of events, answer one of these questions:
- How is revolution portrayed in the book? In Satrapi’s account, what are the stages of the revolution and what do these stages mean for the Iranian people?
- How are America and American culture represented in the book?
- Towards the end of the book, Marjane says about people’s fear of the Islamic Commission, “It’s only natural! When we’re afraid, we lose all sense of analysis and reflection. Our fear paralyzes us. Besides, fear has always been the driving force behind all dictators’ repression” (302). How do Marjane and her compatriots deal with fear in their daily lives? To what extent do you see fear as a controlling factor in your own country’s public life?
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ReplyDeleteLili Lomas. #2
ReplyDeleteIn the book, America and American culture are represented as desirable through Marji’s perspective. Marji, with her Michael Jackson pin and skinny jeans, longs to be a part of this westernized culture. Not only does she show this perspective of America, but so do several people who she encounters in her life. Throughout the book there are mentions of moving to the United States, likely because of the perceived better life people thought they would have here. For example, her childhood friend moves to the U.S. and Reza, her future husband, talks about maybe moving there with Marji. This idea is present today as many refugees go seeking asylum in other countries including the U.S. because of the better life they will think they have there. However, Marji’s parents do not see America as promising. Her father criticizes even the idea of moving his family to the United States telling her mother “So I can become a taxi driver and you a cleaning lady?” (Satrapi 64). For the “guardians of the revolution” and traditionalist people in Iranian society, American and American culture are symbols of decadence. It is the epitome of the degradation of morals and extravagance which is why they reprimand Marji for her western apparel. Marji later on takes on a bit of this perspective when she comes back to her friends after her time in Europe and sees only “the heroines of American TV series, ready to get married at the drop of a hat” (Satrapi 259). In what ways are we like Marji in that we see other countries and cultures as cooler than ours and we want to be a part of them? What examples of this are there?
I agree that Marji and her family embrace the ideals of American culture because it they are more desirable than the political situations they are currently dealing with in Iran. I believe that, similar to Marji, we see other countries as desirable because they support qualities/ideals that our own countries do not support. This may include opportunities related to more desirable jobs, better living conditions, etc.
DeleteLili, I agree with your perspective. America is definitely seen as a safe place for Iranians. I believe that for some third world/developing countries America is the perfect example for an ideal lifestyle that they think is unattainable given their circumstances. I do think that we see other countries and cultures as something we would want to be a part of. This is partially because we don't have what some other countries may have, thus by human nature we are drawn towards somethings we don't have. Yet at the same time a different country presents a complete different set of opportunity whether is a job, lifestyle, or experiences .
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ReplyDeleteThroughout modern history, America has almost always served as a beacon of hope for nations under the leadership of an oppressive regime. The Iranian Revolution was no different, and the graphic novel Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi is able to capture this desire and yearning for Western values. Whether it be from fashion trends to rock music and movies, popular trends within America inevitably disseminate through other parts of the world, as it is not only the “land of the free” and the “home of the brave”, but the epicenter of modernization and democracy. It is no wonder that children and adults alike would be mesmerized by the freedoms and luxuries present within the United States, and actively seek to replicate this same avant-garde environment for themselves. This similar phenomenon can be observed in Persepolis when Marjane sings “‘We’re the kids in America,’ whoa” (Satrapi 132) and begins to wear the renowned denim jacket that was currently in fashion – even though she was found and punished for her decisions, she continues to maintain this lifestyle due to the allure that American culture has on a repressed people. This reminds me of a similar trend that occurred within Communist control countries during the Cold War, as many teenagers would adorn these denim jackets (which were banned since they were considered symbols of American ideals and Westernization) while protesting the government. Hence, it almost seems as though Iran had a similar fate as many of the countries in Eastern Europe, except instead of being oppressed by a foreign nation, they were ruled by themselves. In general, it should be observed that American culture is placed upon a pedestal in this novel, largely due to the historical effect that its trends had on countries around the world. Why do you think that America, instead of other successful democratic nations, was chosen as the figurehead of democracy and modernization? Was the Iranian youth’s yearning to be American irrational?
ReplyDeleteAmerican culture is represented in many different manners over the course of the novel. When Marji was a young girl, she mentioned one of her friends moving away to the US after her mom said “maybe we should leave too…” (Satrapi 64) and the life that they were living was more threatened than ever before. Most of Marji’s other family members had also moved to the US at that point and they were all in search of a brand new life that would take them far away from the horrors that were to come to Iran. As she got older, Marji began to associate American life with material items and material wealth whereas most people in Iran favored faith and family over such things. She explained her life as being more Westernized than most, and without even realizing it, she began to gravitate towards this lifestyle over the one that she was presented with in Iran. America was portrayed as a promised land of sorts and Marji aspired to live in a manner that mirrored the freedom and carelessness that was associated with being American at the time. When her parents went off to Turkey before telling Marji that she was going to Austria, Marji made a comment about Turkey not being as cool as the United States or Europe. In her mind, all that mattered was how cool or flashy what you were doing was, which is very relevant to today’s world and the weight we all put into our social media accounts. We all put versions of ourselves online that we hope other people will associate with how we truly are, but every Instagram post and Tweet is just a snippet of our lives. We all choose to put the best parts of ourselves out there for others to see, which is much like the manner in which Marji wanted to live her life. She wanted to live freely just like Americans, but she didn’t pay attention to what was actually going on in the US at the time because she idealized it so much.
ReplyDeleteZawad Quazi - Question 2.
ReplyDeleteThe culture of the United States of America was something to be desired by the Iranian people, especially from Marjane. This is shown in the beginning in the novel where the girls and boys are mixed and play with each other. Girls are also wearing more revealing clothing and aren’t wearing veils. When the Western culture was stripped away from Marjane, she and other Iranians began to miss those custom and wanted them even more. It became prominent throughout the novel that the people living in the United States had a better life due their culture, and how they could easily express themselves. In Iran, however, that “privilege” is considered against tradition. This made Marjane and other characters in the novel Persepolis want to go to the United States even more, to gain back their freedom. The people in Iran believe that the United States would be a better place to live, however that perspective is more or less restricted to the new generation of Iranians. The old, traditional generation believes Iran would be a better place to live because traditional customs protect their way of life, and the freedom of speech/ expression would only politicize and complicate things. In the end, Marjane believes that the United States and its custom is a thing to be desired as it represents the freedoms and joy that she used to experience as a child. As shown in this quote, “We’re the kids in America.” (Satrapi 132), Marjane showed her love of her early childhood and relates her experiences as American, even though she grew up in Iran. This is very similar to what my father told me when he was growing up. Even though Bangladesh (where he grew up) did not implement strict Islamic law, the country had Western influences and my dad grew up like an American. My dad desired the American dream, the opportunities and the freedoms the country allows. In the sense that they both wanted to go to the United States, I would say my dad and Marjane are similar. This also made me wonder, could the opposite be true? Would it be possible for someone to grow up in a traditional setting, then was introduced into a more main stream western culture, and then wanting to revert back into a traditional setting? This sounds more like the older generation of Iranians. So, to what extend could we have a balance of traditional customs and Western customs to please both old and new generation of Iranians during the 1970’s and 1980’s.
Tanmay Karandikar Reply:
DeleteZawad what you are saying reminds me a lot about what we were talking about in history the other day. The fondness with which people remember the past isn't something that can be overlooked as many in the older generation would say that their childhood was better or that time was better than the current one. I wonder what it is about the American dream that helps people confront their fear of the unknown and pursue something nearly blindly.
Personally I couldn't see myself living in a place outside of the Western world. This might simply be because I try my best to avoid as much Indian "culture" as possible whether it be speaking the language, listening to the "songs", or watching the movies. The only thing that inspired me to drag myself over to India every so often was my familial connections in the country. I know that others probably have a different outlook, but as I try to approach it from another angle, I don't think I could see myself leaving the U.S. even in the event that sweeping changes begin to take place across the political/social landscape.
Anitta Nitto
Delete(Reply #4)
I think it is interesting how your dad's situation is similar to Marjane's, and I think this dilemma is ever prevalent in today's interconnected and globalized world. Personally, I believe the extent to which Western and traditional customs please everyone depends on the individual. Each person has a different viewpoint and incorporates different aspects of what the deem proper into their lives. Foe example Marjane believed that veils restricted her freedom but simultaneously thought that some of the nature and mannerism of people in the Western world were excessive and uncontrolled. Therefore in situations such as those, there is a balance that each individual must find between the dualism of cultures.
I think you posed a very interesting question in whether a child who is introduced to a western culture would ever want to revert back to traditional practices in his/her own culture. I believe it would be highly unlikely for this child to willingly want to revert back to his own culture as he/she would feel this is a reversal in the progress and development of oneself. As humans, we are always trying to improve and progress whether that be by attaining more knowledge or material items. By someone willingly reverting back to a traditional culture it would go against the very human nature of change and progress and ,therefore, would be highly unlikely. This is a primary factor of why there was so much opposition to the cultural revolution in Iran and protests in opposition to a cultural reversion as people felt their individualism and growth was being stunted.
DeleteFarris
DeleteHey Zawad I found it interesting how you connected Persepolis and Marjane to your dad and how he desired the American dream and the opportunities and the freedoms that came with moving to this country. As for your question on if it be possible for someone to grow up in a traditional setting, then was introduced into a more main stream western culture, and then wanting to revert back into a traditional setting I think it is possible for someone to grow up a traditional setting and then fall into the main culture and become interested but then revert back to their own culture because they seem to feel more comfortable with it. I think that Marjane showed this perfectly by growing up in a traditional setting and conforming to Western culture but I feel as though she would still hold on to the traditional culture she had in the beginning.
Grace Hao Reply:
ReplyDeleteHey Zawad! I think that for Marjane specifically (and her family), western culture from America was highly desired. However, I think that this is not the case for all people in Iran. Some Iranians may despise Iranian culture, but may also despise American culture. I agree that there is a major generational difference in beliefs of the Iranian society. I think it's very cool that you could make a connection to your own family. I think that people could wish for traditional settings. I think there are many people longing for both traditional and modern approaches to things. It's just that in this book specifically, we see an emphasis on a longing for modern and western culture. I think that the newer generation of Iranians will be more open minded, but will have their share of traditional thinkers. Do you think that one's preference for traditional or modern living/settings depends of nature or nurture?
V Prasad, Question 2
ReplyDeleteAmerica and American culture are seen through two different viewpoints in the novel. When referring to Marjane, she sees America and American culture as an outlet to her stress. Celebrities such as Michael Jackson, ABBA, and Kim Wilde are seen as role models for her. Western culture is extremely influential to her as she has posters of bands like AC/DC and CDs of their music. She used this culture as a way to convey her hope for things getting better. For example, when Marjane was seen outside with her Nike sneakers and her scarf a little too far back on her head, she comes home and cries. In order to calm down she plays Kim Wilde’s “Kids in America” with the text of “to each his own way of calming down.” (Satrapi, 134). This shows how American culture plays a large role in letting her unwind and also is a way of rebelling against the government at the time as it was seen as taboo to own such things. Other than music, Marjane had many friends that left to the United States during the revolution in order to be safe and live out the American dream, leaving her lonely and envious. The other viewpoint that can be seen is that of her parents. Contrasting Marjane’s view of America, her father does not see a future there. When dropping their family off at the airport so they can move there, Marjane proposes moving there as well. Her father responds with “So that I can become a taxi driver and you a cleaning lady?” (Satrapi, 64). This shows that Marjane’s father is not in favor of moving although everyone else is. He sees America as a land of low opportunity although it will give them freedom from the revolution. Are there any other examples that you picked up on regarding American culture and America in the novel?
Do you think that Marjane's parents stuck to the idea of attempting to live prosperous lives in Iran as opposed to elsewhere because they truly believed that the rest of the world was lacking in opportunities, or was this more because they had just grown accustomed to Iran and didn't want to change? I think it is the latter because, presumably Marjane was receiving the same outside information as her parents but they were drawing different conclusions from the data. Marji saw a land of great wealth and freedom and wanted to join in on the fun, while I think her parents saw a new strange world which they were too old to adapt to. Otherwise, why would they assume that they would become taxi drivers or maids if they already have extensive job experience at the company they worked at now.
DeletePS. She had posters of Iron Maiden and Kim Wilde, not Ac/Dc. I guess Iron Maiden is "like Ac/DC" but its technically wrong.
Lisette Hotz
DeleteI like how you recognized the contrast between Marjane's idealization of the American experience and her fathers view of life in America. He realizes that moving the the US would put them socially and economically at the bottom of the food chain, however, I think that Marajne's dad does still idealize the US to some extent by comparing the events early in the book to James Bond Movies to make things seem better than they are.
V, I really like how you pointed out that how Marjane viewed life in the United States of America is completely different from that of his father. From Marjane's perspective, moving to the U.S. will give her freedom from the new oppressive Islamic Iranian regime. From her father's perspective, moving to the United States will give her freedom, but her high class status that she has in Iran will be gone after she becomes a waitress and her husband a tax driver in New York. He seems to prioritize a societal status over economic status.
DeleteSally Kyong:
DeleteHey V! I think it was interesting how you talked about two different perspectives about the American culture in the novel. I like how you mention about the things that Marjane was interested in from the Western culture. I like how you expanded on what the American culture truly means to Marjane and how it was her way of releasing stress. I want to ask you two questions, which are what kind of things influence you and why?
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DeleteAmish Dara Reply: V, your point on the two contrasting viewpoints was in depth and insightful. Another example of how American culture was incorporated into Satrapi's Persepolis could be traced back to the black markets. These markets "where people sell western commodities like audiotapes" (Satrapi 135), demonstrated the integration of American culture in that it showed that these Western items were of great demand among the people of Iran. This is due to the fact that the black markets signify a demand for these American items..
DeleteAnitta Nitto
ReplyDeleteQuestion #2
When Satrapi lived in Iran, her family is less traditional and incorporates more western and liberal ideals. For example, they attend parties and bring Marjane goods from America. For Marjane herself, the perfect word to describe her relationship with American culture would be partial disillusionment. While in Iran, she dreams of a society where she can wear what she wants and expresses herself freely. Her fascination can be seen when Satrapi’s parents smuggle posters of Kim Wilde and Iron Maiden across customs and immigration. They were her the “Nike’s latest model” a coin with Michael Jackson, a denim jacket, and posters (Satrapi 130). Her mom says “It’s so hard for kids in Iran, the poor things” (Satrapi 127). Marjane was the only person who had these sort of freedoms. I wonder if the denim jacket has any connection to denim jeans as a symbol of rebellion during the Cold War. This brings into question what effect taking away these small freedoms has on the people of Iran. What sort of change would occur in the minds of the individuals who are being so suddenly strictly regulated after the revolution? However, Satrapi’s situation reminds me of the saying you do not realize the value of something until you’ve lost it. When she is in America, she understands the value of her grandmother, family, and culture but in Iran, she was intrigued by my American pop culture. This reminds me of my personal experiences, and how accurately Satrapi portrayed the same feelings. When I am here, I miss my family and hometown in India and sometimes wish to be in a place where everyone looked and spoke like me. However, after staying in India for longer than a month, I miss my bed, my dog, and way of life. In my opinion, Satrapi perfectly portrays the dilemma of an individual who experiences the clashing of cultures.
Tanmay Karandikar reply:
DeleteAnitta, I completely agree with a lot of the topics that you brought up. I feel that Satrapi's differing mindset compared to Reza truly represented the presence of disillusionment in some people as well as the nostalgia and emotional connection that exists in others. One of the really interesting things that I noticed while reading was that even though many of the shifts in norms felt extremely sudden, the enforcement took place very gradually. Some groups provided more vocal support for the changing social landscape that wasn't nearly as Western in influence until it just felt required for them to follow the rules. I wonder if the families that moved away in the book felt the same longing to be back in their country even if it was engulfed in chaos.
Anitta, I completely agree with most of points you made. Personally, I can relate to the personal connection you made; people often don't know or appreciate what they have until they lose it. For me, this is also the case because once I moved to the United States I did not know ho important my family was to me. Living Mexico I used to see them pretty much everyday, we ate breakfast, lunch, and dinner at my grandmother's house. Today, I really missed that, thus that is why I have a different perspective on a lot of topics.
DeleteAmish Dara Reply:
DeleteAnitta, partial disillusionment is a perfect term to describe Satrapi's relationship with American culture. Satrapi's time in America did not meet her expectatoins and the same is vice versa with Iran. This piques my interest in that this may have been a hidden theme or idea that Satrapi wanted to express in Persepolis. What if Satrapi wanted to demonstrate that their is no perfect culture and each one has its own unique flaws.
Tanmay Karandikar #2: An Escape and An Enemy
ReplyDeleteAmerica has a distinct dichotomy in the eyes of the Iranian people and Marjane’s family. Marjane’s family, generally characterized as being particularly westernized and progressive compared to many of the fundamentalists, is not at all threatened by the presence of American (more generally western) culture and its influence in Iran. During a time when they constantly criticized their government for being oppressive, the chance to rebel and speak out, whether it be through attending demonstrations or simply listening to music that challenged the given social order of the country. Marjane’s parents support their daughter’s desire to indulge in the western pop culture, by smuggling in posters following their trip (Satrapi 131). The defiance in their acts is further emphasized as Marjane must go to the black market dealers who sell her cassette tapes, “videos, music cards, lipstick, nail polish”, and even necessities like food (Satrapi 132). Marjane idolizes the free expression from the bands and artists that she listens to, seeing America as an escape from her world where she is constantly under the scrutiny of the Guardians of the Revolution and society as a whole.
Contrary to the other viewpoint that most people see with America, the American dream seems to be a cruel joke in the eyes of the Iranians. They know that their opportunities in the United States don’t nearly live up to their current way of life. When Marjane’s mom considers leaving the country, Marjane’s dad remarks that doing so will result in him becoming “a taxi driver and [her] a cleaning lady” (Satrapi 64). Unlike Gatsby, which showed a corrupt American dream that appeared to be impossible for the common man to reach, this graphic novel simply accepts that the ideology as a whole is dead, especially for foreigners. This is probably due to the distinct cultural and historical contexts from which the two books were written. We see that while in Iran, Marjane’s view of America has been colored, believing that “The Americans are dummies”, likely due to her relations with her friends and family. Her uncle Anoosh, whom she lionized, had studied Marxism-Leninism in Russia, a country with differing interests and views compared to America. Also, one of her close friends left Iran for America, possibly increasing her negative feelings for the country (Satrapi 63).
Satrapi paints a very clear picture regarding America’s place in Iran during the unstable time that she lived there. America was not seen as the paradise that offered numerous opportunities, but still provided an escape mentally with its culture and physically without the presence of such a strong fundamentalist government.
One question that this brought up in my mind was how does the ability to interact with the culture (music, art, etc.) of another group possibly deepen relations and decrease political/social tension.
DeleteAnitta Nitto
Delete(Reply #5)
Great insight on what the concept and location of America meant to the people of Iran. I thought it was interesting on how you contrasted the story with Gatsby and how the "American Dream" is portrayed differently in each context. It is interesting to see the difference between of the American dream for someone who lives in America vs. someone who is seeing it from the outside. Also, the comparison of America as a safe haven oasis is much like how it is presented in the book: a place for escape with ideas and practices that is nothing like the oppression that is being faced currently.
Murtaza Neemuchwala
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2
How are America and American culture represented in the book?
The perception of the United States and American culture in Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi is one that is rooted in hope and idealism. America and its culture in Persepolis are represented not as a nation and its commonly held beliefs but rather a goal and the manifestation of idealism in the world. The United State's western culture is thought to be the ambition of all progress in their home lands and people try and mimic the perceived perfection present in Western trends. From a young age, the Iranian girls want to wear Western clothes and listen to Western music. These materialistic things aren't objectively better or more beneficial for the young kids but it represents the improvement in lifestyle. The American lifestyle is seen as luxurious by those in the society of Iran and the Islamic values are seen by many as prohibitive in attaining the indulgences of western society. The American culture's power can be seen when Marjane wants to wear the western trendy denim jacket. The jacket is prohibited in an Islamic conservative society, but Marjane refuses to stop this from her sporting it. In her mind, the jacket is a symbol of progress, style, and hope. All of these traits symbolically held in the denim jacket derive from the greater allure of American society and Western culture. I feel this ideal of the "American Dream" relates to present day immigrants to America from Latin American nations as well. Much like Marjane views American kids to be the most fortunate as she exclaims “‘We’re the kids in America,’ whoa”, immigrants from Latin American nations believe the US is the land of opportunity and a haven that provides a better quality of life for their kids (Satrapi 132). Stimulating Questions: To what extent is the notion of American idealism and hope rooted in reality? Why is the US the western country seen as the country with the material culture to copy in lesser developed nations when other European nations are pioneers in fashion?
Hi Murtaza!
DeleteYour question about American idealism made me reflect on the culture of consumerism in our society. It made me reflect on my own actions and how I value my own goods and spend my own money. I think that there has been an ongoing problem with consumerism in our country, which is why they view us as "the country with the material culture to copy in lesser developed nations".
Hello Murtaza,
DeleteBefore I attempt to answer your question about American idealism, I think it would be best for me describe what I think is the American ideal. I don't think that it is consumerism or that it revolves around money; that is the capitalistic ideal, I think, which is different from the American values of equality, justice, and freedom, all of which are rooted in political and social idealism. I think that such an ideal is lofty, and perhaps unrealistic when taken into account in context with the irrationality of human beings. However, they are ideals to be striven for nonetheless, as without lofty ideals we can never create a more ideal world in reality.
Hey Murt,
DeleteIn response to your first question, I think that American idealism is not at all rooted in reality. I think that it is merely an idea/a belief. As we learnt through the Great Gatsby, the american dream became a popular belief that the middle and lower classes accepted during the Great Depression. They accepted this belief in an effort to cope with their miseries they faced in the real world; in essence, it gave them a purpose to live. I think the same applies to Marjane's world. In a state of constant oppression due to the war, such glorified belief such as the American dream became popular in Iran; it gave people a sense of hope and a reason for them to continue living. Let me know what you think about it.
~ Harsha Jagannathan
To answer your question "why is the US the western country seen as the country with the material culture to copy in lesser developed nations when other European nations are pioneers in fashion," it is because of globalization and pop culture. Because Western companies, mainly American, have been able to branch their markets out the rest of the world, our popular culture has dispersed as well because consumerism is very much a large part of American popular culture. For example, a more modern example, Coach sells their products all over the world. Their advertisements will include celebrities such as Selena Gomez. People outside of the US will wonder who she is, use a common search engine like Google to figure out who she is, listen to her music, and her fame will spread. Soon people will listen to other artist like her, and just like that, Western popular culture spread.
DeleteI agree with your statement, many Iranian girls want to mimic the actions of the Western culture and it can be seen as they all want to listen to the music and wear those clothes. Because of the ideals that are seen throughout the book these girls are suppressed from showing their true self because of the Islamic ideals that are pushed on these girls.
DeletePolitical Lense
ReplyDeleteQuestion #2: How are America and American culture portrayed in Persepolis?
Due to its tremendous amount of influence in international affairs throughout history, the United States of America is portrayed differently by different individuals; while some may view America and American culture as hostile, others view them indifferently or even fabulous. The graphic novel, Persepolis, by Marjane Satrapi exemplifies this by explaining how American culture is viewed by her family in contrast to how traditionalists in Iran after the Islamic Revolution of 1979 viewed Western culture. From Satrapi’s perspective, the American culture was something she respected and encouraged in her family; not only did she listen to western artists such as “Pink Floyd” and “Michael Jackson,” but she also dressed in similar way to how Americans did in the early 1980s. Her dress style was influenced by western culture, she wore a denim jacket and skinny jeans. Conservatives in Iran had a negative view of the United States, they rejected all forms of entertainment that came from Western culture. The traditionalists response to Marjane was calling her “a little whore” for wearing western clothes and called Michael Jackson a “symbol of decadence” (Satapri 133). Iran’s view of the U.S. and their culture are somewhat similar to how Mexico views the U.S. today; in a way, the young population praises foreign culture instead of their own. Because I lived in Mexico for 13 years and then moved to the United States, I had the opportunity to experience both cultures. In Mexico, there is an on growing culture known as “malinchismo” which praises foreign popular culture, making people to lose their sense of nationality. Many Mexicans, especially young adults, have started to reject their own culture and started to favor the American culture; this includes: the rejection of traditional Mexican music such as “corridos” and the rejection of traditional Mexican traditions More personally, before moving to the U.S., I was part of this new culture in Mexico, however, after experiencing the American culture, I realized that not everything is as great as it seemed. I am proud to be Mexican and I embrace my culture, however, because I grew up in the U.S. these last 4 years of my life, my view of the U.S. has shifted. This bring me to question the extent to which cultures tend to reject their own traditional customs and values, as there seems to be a tendency in many countries around the world that the younger population is somewhat different from the older generations. How is it that some values get lost while others are born?
Elieser,
DeleteYour connection to malinchismo was really interesting to me. I think it is prevalent around the world. In India, in particular, there is a strong youth culture that revolves around acting how they believe Americans act. This includes listening to American music and wearing Western clothes. This is often in direct contrast to Indian culture, which teenagers often try to reject in favor of American culture.
Rithvik Gunda- Reply #5
DeleteYou said that because the US is involved in many international affairs different people view America in different ways. But I have a question for you: Why do you think that the younglings in other countries such as Mexico or India strive to be more Western or American? Why are American characteristics considered to be more popular or favorable? Why not any other country- why America?
Dwija Dammanna, #3
ReplyDeleteMarjane and those around her are deeply affected by the fear that comes from the Islamic Commission. As Marjane indicates in the quote, the Islamic Commission often achieved its goal of quelling rebellion by placing a more immediate problem (being caught for wearing inappropriate clothing) in their lives. An example of this in the book is when Marjane returns from Europe and has a difficult time reconnecting with her friends. Though she finds them vapid, she understands that "when something is forbidden, it takes on a disproportionate importance" (Satrapi 259). To her Iranian friends, wearing makeup and getting haircuts was their own form of rebellion. This situation is similar to the Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood. In the novel, the Handmaids are kept submissive through strictly enforced uniforms and the threat of violent punishment. In Persepolis, there are several characters who oppose the new regime, but the majority of people were complacent, even if they disagreed with the new laws. Marjane's mother comments on her neighbor by saying that "last year she was wearing a miniskirt...and now [she] is wearing a chador" (Satrapi 75). Fear of the new regime changed not only what her neighbor wore, but how religious she made herself and her family seem. In their daily lives, Marjane and her friends rebelled by drinking, dancing and wearing clothes that were deemed inappropriate. However, it is important to note that Marjane and her friends were a part of the upper class, so they had the means to pay to get out of jail. Most Iranians did not have this luxury and would be severely punished for partying as they did. In America, fear is perpetrated towards outsiders, particularly towards immigrants. How is the role of fear by the government in Iran comparable to America?
I really like your connection to the Handmaid's Tale. The similarities are uncanny, in the way the women have to dress, cannot go out by themselves, are constantly under surveillance, and are blamed if there are any issues in reproducing (ie. the idea of the male being sterile is impossible in the society). I think one major difference is that in the Handmaid's Tale, the men use the women to gain power and for their own pleasure, but in the Iranian society, women still have somewhat of a status. For example, when Marjane framed the man for catcalling her, the guards did not question her or tell her to wear a longer scarf. Instead, they punished him for it, so women still have some respect in society.
DeleteSyed Farris Ali
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2
American culture is represented as a way to express yourself and to break away from the strict rule of the islamic traditions. In one part of the book it shows Marjane all involved with westernized culture by putting up posters of Iron Maiden, wearing 1983 nikes shoes on and a denim jacket with a Michael Jackson on it. In her mind nothing is wrong with what she is wearing but for other people and the women who stops her they believe that american culture is a way to resist their islamic tradition. This shows how Marjane desires to break out of the veil and the covering and wants a little bit of leniency towards it. Marjane feels as though it's a way to destress herself from all the strict changes that is happening around her. She also did not respond well to the veil but she still wears it in order to avoid the problems that was caused by the revolution going on at that time. A question I thought was How does Iranian culture view Americans? The women who stop Marjane belief that her style is punk and is rebellious towards the islamic tradition and values “their job was to put us back on the straight and narrow path by explaining the duties of muslim women It was obvious she had no idea what punk was There was no alternative I had to lie” (Satrapi 137)this quote shows the intention of the women was to correct Marjane appearance and at the same time scold her that she is staying from the correct path.
Sally Kyong:
DeleteHey Farris! I agree with you on how American culture was something that allowed the Iranians to break away from the rules of the Islamic traditions. I like how you give examples of how American culture had an influence on Marjane and what kind of things she took into her own culture ignoring the rules of the Islamic Regime. I like how you explain what the American culture means to Marjane since it allows the audience to understand the importance of it.
Farris, I agree that American culture is seen as a form of rebellion by Marjane and she uses American fashion and music to escape the strict norms of the revolution. I think your first question is interesting as there is a big difference in viewpoint between different Iranians and their view on American ideals and culture, however it is viewed negatively by the fundamentalists and leaders of the revolution. I think it would also be interesting to compare a story of an American girl living in America at the same age as Marjane in Iran, and figuring out how Americans view Iranian culture and whether it was viewed in the same negative way.
DeleteKevin Shi
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2:
America is viewed in the book as a mystical place where people fleeing oppression go to seek asylum. It’s seen as an extremely liberal place where people can do what they want and where what they want, but there is a more negative undercurrent as well; America, and Western culture in general, is seen as extremely decadent, even to Marjane’s family. Furthermore, America is seen as somewhat of a villain. For example, the CIA is shown to have trained Shah loyalists in torture techniques, shown in these quotes by Siamak and Mohsen, friends of Marjane’s parents: “Our torturers received special training from the CIA,” and “Real scientists!!! They knew each part of the body. They knew where to hit!” (Satrapi 54). For Marji, she considers American culture as free, and gets her parents to even smuggle posters showing her favorite music artists into Iran from Europe. Some of these efforts to obtain pieces of Western culture makes me question exactly how isolated Iranian society was during this time. Were there certain exceptions to the restrictions on Western culture? How easy was it to smuggle contraband items into Iran in the first place? There are also some similarities to The Handmaid’s Tale, by Margaret Atwood. The clandestine parties and the hidden contraband is very similar. When Marjane goes to Austria, she experiences Western culture, and thereby aspects of American culture. At first she makes earnest attempts to assimilate into Western society, but finds it hard with her past experiences. She remakes herself several times in the image of the Western woman, and parties quite frequently. However, upon returning to Iran, she feels great shame, witnessing the desolation of what was once a bustling Tehran, which gives her perspective on her own life. She comes to the understanding that what once seemed like such big issues, such as her love life, were really quite insignificant when compared to all the suffering her family and others lived through while in Tehran. This makes me wonder; what is the nature of social activism? It seems like every time a problem is fixed, people grow complacent and begin to fall back into their daily routines. Are social activism and public awareness rooted in suffering? Is there a way we can make people more aware about societal issues without necessarily subjecting them to distress?
Andrew Clarke - You make a really good point about how social activism isn't carried on after an issue has been appeased or compromised on in society, and that it usually takes more problems to get it moving again. From what I've observed of the world and of history, I believe that social activism and public awareness is rooted in suffering. However, I don't believe that these topics are rooted in suffering because that's the way they are. Instead, I believe that human society has placed them there naturally because in human nature when we have a problem that affects us, we want to do something to fix it. Unlike human nature, public awareness isn't set a specific way that we cannot make it happen unless a problem affects a majority of the population, rather we can choose to be publicly aware. The news plays a large part in motivating people to be more publicly aware, but they do it using fear. Say a sex offender has been said to be in your neighborhood on the news, and now you know about the sex offender and will look out for suspicious activity more because your fear of the sex offender has been made real to you. Perhaps there might be a way to initiate this social awareness in people without the use of fear, but many people and organizations recognize that fear is one of the most effective methods of getting people to be more aware about something.
DeleteLisette Hotz, Answering Question 2: How are America and American culture represented in the book?
ReplyDeleteWhat major examples in the novel have you noticed that create an unrealistic, idealized view of American culture?
Do you think that the perspective that Marji has on American culture is accurate?
In the novel, American culture and american figures are somewhat idealized and idolized especially by Marji and her family. Throughout the narrative, western references are frequently made ranging from american musicians and actors to american fashion. One major example of the idolized representation of popular western figures is of Bruce Lee in "The Sheep" chapter. "But the United States is terrific! You'll see Bruce Lee in person!", mentions Marji's friend (Satrapi 63). In the next panel you can see that Marji is devastated when she realizes that Bruce Lee is in fact dead. This contributes to the theme in the chapter of Marji's heros abandoning her or falling short of her expectations. By the end of the chapter Marji's uncle Anoosh has passed away which is very significant since he was the only hero in Marji's entire family and she looked up to him as a friend and as a protector. Marji also abandons God by the end of this chapter leaving Marji feeling "...lost, without any bearings..." (Satrapi 71). This shows the high status at which Marji held American figures in the media alongside her uncle Anoosh and even God himself. Another example of the idealization of American figures is when Marji's dad says that if you heard of the current events in Iran "You'd think it was a James Bond movie", (Satrapi 72). It shows that Marji's family is familiar with western culture and hopes that their own circumstances will turn out in their favor like they always do for the heroes in american shows and movies. This is similar to when I myself compare a certain moment in my life that seems picture perfect to a movie or to the life of a famous person.
Hey Lisette, I think the way that Marji idolizes the Western culture is shown very clearly by her asking her parents to smuggle in posters and sneakers from their visit to Turkey because possessing and purchasing those items is banned in post-revolution Iran. After this, when Marji goes onto the street wearing Western fashions, she is almost arrested by members of the Guardians of the Revolution and has to lie to get out of the situation. During this venture, she also goes and buys tapes of Kim Wilde and Camel and goes home to jam to the tunes once the situation was over, which shows how Marjane turns to Western culture to calm her down. (133-134)
Delete-Rudransh Dikshit
Hi Lisette, I think you and Rudransh pointed out some very good examples of Marji's Idolization of American culture. To some extent I believe her views of America are very unrealistic. Marji is best described as an outsider looking in, she doesn't have the experience of living in America and knowing its actuality. The basis of her love for it is primarily founded only on her distaste of the revolution and what is perceived in famous songs that emerged after the Cold War during a time of strong American patriotism. Thus, I feel like she does not have a solid grasp on what it means to be an American and the occasionally dark life of someone trying to pursue the American Dream.
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ReplyDeleteSally Kyong
ReplyDelete#2
America and American Culture
In the novel, The Complete Persepolis, by Marjane Satrapi, America is represented as a place of freedom, and American culture is represented as something that is desired by the people in Iran. America and American culture are represented in the book by showing how Marjane’s family was influenced by the Western culture, and how the Islamic Regime were against those influences. In the novel, it shows that Marjane was influenced by the culture of America with the skinny jeans, denim jacket, Michael Jackson button, Nike shoes, and the different posters from the Western culture. Marjane also listens to music that was from the Western culture. This shows how Marjane viewed the American culture as desirable, and it gave her freedom of choice to do what she wanted to do and wear what she wanted to wear. On the other hand, the Islamic Regime was against anything that was from the Western culture. When Marjane walks out of her house wearing skinny jeans, a denim jacket with Michael Jackson button on it, and Nike shoes, the Guardians of the Revolution calls her a “little whore” (Satrapi 133). They also tell her to “get in the car” and that “[they were] taking [her] down to the committee” (Satrapi 133). This shows how the Islamic Regime was against the Western culture and how they wanted things to be in their own way. This reminds me of how in the novel, Things Fall Apart, by Chinua Achebe, Okonkwo was trying to make his son become a true man. Okonkwo always talked about how Nwoye needed to be powerful and not lazy, so he could be successful at the end. This shows how Okonkwo is forcing his opinions about what a true man should be like. This parallels with the part where the Islamic Regime is forcing the Iranians to follow only their rules because that is the right thing. It shows how, in both cases, things can’t be accepted if it doesn’t match what they think is right. This leads me to the question, to what extent can people make decisions for other people and what rights do they have to stop people from doing what they want to do?
Yue Taira, Question 3: Fear
ReplyDeleteThe most pervasive and obvious form of fear present in the novel was the fear of the unknown. Especially in the often confusing and chaotic times that might characterize a state in revolution, people’s rumors and imaginations led them to fear things that “may” happen as a result of the war or as a result of acting in any way against the state. Towards the beginning of the novel and revolution, people were not completely knowledgeable about the war or the situation in its entirety, which often led to seemingly irrational fears of the unknown. To deal with this fear, Marjane often resorts to acts of rebellion. Even when she was younger, in the moment where she contemplates the current state of Iran and the war in her basement, she smokes a cigarette for the first time to become “a grown-up.” (Satrapi 117). Towards the end, her method of coping with this fear remains constant, as she discusses the different acts of subversion her and her friends committed to rebel against the state, to rebel against the fear that they instilled inside of them, so much to the point that they were no longer questioning their basic freedom of thought or speech (Satrapi 302). In the same way, fear can be a controlling factor here in present-day America as well, but instead of the fear being of the unknown, thanks to a new age of technology and digital information sharing, the fear is of what others know, especially of ourselves. We do not fear an oppressive government, but rather ourselves, and what we might be perceived as in the eyes of others. In order to cope with this fear, we may constantly find ourselves trapped in the “what ifs,” which is something that those in Persepolis definitely did when they did not know the whereabouts of their loved ones, or they let questionable people into their homes. Here, instead, we are letting people into our personal lives through the pervasive use of social media and other platforms that help us share information about us. We share information with others more readily and at a greater degree than ever. To what extent does this create a more unified or close-knit society, and does it at all if we use mere facades instead of an accurate depiction of our true selves?
Neha Yerramreddy
ReplyDeleteQuestion 3
Fear was perhaps the driving force behind many of the people’s actions during this time, as the repercussions for going against the Iranian government were severe and unforgiving. Marjane and her family, especially because they were more Westernized, were often forced to change or hide things about their lives in order to remain safe from the oppressive government. In this way, their lives are shaped around the fear of getting caught and being punished. Marjane’s mother, after a picture of her protesting was plastered on the front page of a magazine, dyes her hair and wears sunglasses in order to avoid being recognized. Marjane describes her mother as being “really scared” (Satrapi, 9) despite being in only one magazine in all of Iran. However, in the United States, there is more emphasis on the concept of individual freedom and freedom of speech, and therefore, less fear of how the government will retaliate to something it does not like. Despite this, there are instances in which fear is a controlling factor in the United States’s public life, such as when victims of rape do not come forward for fear of public backlash, or when people hold back from tweeting because they fear it will negatively impact their jobs in the future. This led me to wonder, to what extent is fear a motivation for our daily actions? How much of what we do is a response to fearing an adverse outcome? (For example, do we only study because we are afraid of getting a bad grade?)
I really like your example of how the Iranian goverment used fear to control people. When I read what Marji's mother did to procect herself from being recognized by others, it was the first time I really understood what real fear was like for Iranian society. Because one would only go to such an extent if they believe their life is truly in danger. And to answer your question, I believe that fear is a motivation for our daily actions to a great extent. For example, when making a choice I believe that to some extent we fear the alternative an the implication of the other choice that could of been made.
DeleteKelly Wei / Question #3
ReplyDeleteTowards the end of the book, Marjane says about people’s fear of the Islamic Commission, “It’s only natural! When we’re afraid, we lose all sense of analysis and reflection. Our fear paralyzes us. Besides, fear has always been the driving force behind all dictators’ repression” (302). How do Marjane and her compatriots deal with fear in their daily lives? To what extent do you see fear as a controlling factor in your own country’s public life?
Marjane approaches fear with initial despair, as we all do. Following Anoosh's death, for example, she feels "so lost, without any bearings" (Satrapi, 71), as this marks one of the first instances in which she is exposed so directly to the violence of her country's regime. Similarly, her mother, after being verbally assaulted in the streets, "made [her] sick for several days" (74). with time, however, we see a process of adjustment and coping that enables Marjane to respond to the rampant fear around her with boldness, recklessness, and a sense of dark humor. The same can be observed in her compatriots and family. They begin to make fun of the changes undertaking their country. For example, after strict dress codes have been instated, Marjane's mother, after seeing a neighboring woman switch from miniskirts to a burqa, remarks with a touch of humor, "she was...showing off her beefy thighs to the whole neighborhood," and adds, "[The burqa] suits her better" (75). Marjane adopts a similar attitude where she makes sarcastic comments and jokes in spite of the terrorsome world they are living in - I was reminded of the soldiers in trenches in WWI who, in an attempt to cope with the enormous volume of dead bodies surrounding them, unable to be buried or removed for months, would make jokes with the corpses by shaking the bodies' hand as if in greeting or propping them up. Overall, I think fear minimally marks my experience living in the US. Our civil liberties are protected under an effective legal document and I trust many of the leaders in our country (not all, but most) to put the people's best interest ahead of their own and lead with fairness and kindness.
Questions: To what extent does fear become ineffective in its ability to control, and instead raise anger/rebellion? Why do we develop humor and sarcasm as a method to combat our trauma and fears?
Anu Uppal- Question #2- How are America and American culture represented in the book?
ReplyDeleteIn Persepolis, the American culture is seen as wrong due to the fact that the Islamic Rule finds the Western ways disrespectful. The Islamic rule shows disgust to the western ways, they prohibit their people of being like them and condemn the westerns. Nevertheless, as much as they hated the western ways, they were also ignorant about them. An example would be when one of the women from the feminine branch of the Guardians of the Revolution caught Majane wearing western clothes. When she made reference to Marjane's sneakers she called them "punk" shoes, and Marjane herself stated "It was obvious she had no idea what punk was" (Satrapi 133). Since the government prohibited people to "act like westerns" and dress freely, people have created love for the western culture as a small act of rebellion. Most of the Islamics see America as their pathway to freedom as stated by one of Marjane's friends as he says "But the United States is terrific!" (Satrapi 63). Interestingly, Marjane's parents who are communists do not like the U.S. so much. An example would be when Marjane's mother proposed to go to the U.S. and her dad replied "So that I can become a taxi driver and you a cleaning lady?" (Satrapi 64). From this, one can see that Marjane's parents agree with the Islamic rule regarding the dislike for the U.S., although they are not allies, not even close to that. Also, Marjane as a child, liked the American culture, she tried to be as western as possible. She dressed like westerns and followed their ways as much as she could. When she grew up and came back from Austria she had changed, as when she came back to her room, she stated "Before leaving Iran, I worshipped punks, to the point of having one drawn on my wall" (Satrapi 248) and then she thought to herself "Pfff! What shit!" (Satrapi 248). This shows that in reality there was no true love for the U.S., they did not seek living in America or follow the American culture because they liked it, they simply saw it as their possibility to show rebellion, reaction against the oppressor government.
Questions: After reading the book I still don't understand, was it worthy for Marjane to come back? Was she truly happy back in Iran?
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ReplyDeleteAmish Dara- Question 2: How are America and American culture represented in the book?
ReplyDeleteMarjane Satrapi's implementation of American culture represented in her book and its effects and contrast with the culture of Iran is a central idea in Persepolis. Satrapi illustrates this disparity by incorporating Western culture into her life in Persepolis. An example of this can be seen in Marjane's rock posters that she has in her room. This conveys that even in a socially. restricted place like post-revolution Iran, western culture is still prominent. Satrapi also demonstrates the mixing of American culture with the culture of Iran. A primary example of this can be when Satrapi wears Nike shoes, a denim jacket with a Michael Jackson button, and her head scarf. This informs the readers on the abirdgement of the dichotomy between western and traditional persian culture. It also goes to show the personality and taste of Satrapi. Satrapi also displays American culture in her book by demonstrating its dispersal and selling. The black markets "where people sell western commodities like audiotapes" (Satrapi 135) Satrapi visits are an example of this. Showing these goods being actively selled also shows the great demand for these goods in Iran which indicates that numerous people of the nation are being 'westernized'. This piques my interest in that Satrapi takes a risk here. To show the popular liking of western items Satrapi uses black markets. This is risky in that a majority of readers would not make this connection. This brings up another point in that was Satrapi even trying to point this out with the black markets or was she trying to show something else - Marjane's rebellious nature or the illegality of western items. To what extent was Satrapi's incorporation of American culture effective?
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ReplyDelete2) Alec Xu - How are America and American culture represented in the book?
ReplyDeleteRegardless of the book, genre, author, the United States of America, is more often than not, represented as a center for hope and freedoms. However, as we see in the book, Marjane Satrapi uses Americans and the culture associated with Americans to be rebellious in nature. Though these cultures and traditions that Americans have are not considered to be bad by Marji herself, a lot of what she is trying to imitate is considered to be illegal by the government. Her likes of pop music and skinny jeans are just a few examples of the freedoms that she ultimately would like to have. Along with this, a few American ideologies can be seen in her parent's views on education. Her parents, obviously aware of the political circumstances of the country, would like to send her to a private institution. Although Marjane may not have intentionally put this connection to America to the book. The emphasis on education and the activities that she does in school closely mimic the American education system and the school life experienced here. Thirdly, the idea of Americanism is depicted in the general revolution that goes on in the book. Americans are defined by the freedoms granted to them as well as their ability to express what they believe. Though the revolution was aimed specifically at women's rights, the idea to revolt against a governing power is rather American as seen by the many protests within the United States in recent years. Ultimately, this sentiment toward freedom within the book symbolizes western influences within Iran, however the specific examples within the education system, for example, shows a rather American culture that is being imitated in Iran. However, as the ideas of the west began to flow into Iran, I was wondering how long it actually took the people of Iran to take up these ideas and embrace it to the extent that they ultimately ended up at?
#2 America and American culture was represented in the book by the materialistic objects that the characters would possess and/or the conversations between Marjane and her friends. For example, Marjane had a poster of Kim Wilde in her bedroom and wore jeans and nike shoes. The presence of these things shows the influence of the American culture on Iran. Most of the families see themselves as modern people , as they hold western social and political beliefs. The social beliefs seen in the book are belief in rights of women, liberal education, and human rights. In the second half of the novel, we see the American culture outside of Iran in Europe. The emphasis on individual rights and freedom are closely related to the values held in America.
ReplyDeleteRithvik Gunda- Question Number 2
ReplyDeleteThis question is quite interesting because in the novel itself we are presented with so many different perspectives that it’s hard to make a single claim and justify this question in its entirety. But i'll start with the most common perspective we first: Marjane’s family. From the very opening of the novel we know that Marjane’s parents are some of the most westernized folks in their community- with their Cadillac, progressive mindset, refusal to oblige to societal standards it's not easy to shrug how modernized they are. However, I do feel compelled to bring up a thought I was having. In novels like these the narrator often presents themself as the protagonist as it is more than typical for the reader to follow their lead. And with this in mind I’m sure that regardless of the fact that all of us are mostly raised in the US, we still saw Marjane’s family fighting the good fight, and I wouldn’t be surprised if a few of us rooted for them along the way. This brings up the issue that considering this specific, singular, perspective the American culture and the US are put under a good light as many of Marjane’s friends and close family even move to the US to start a new life or escape the conditions in Iran. However, I do feel a bit conflicted making this broad of a statement considering that there have also been instances of where Marjane’s own family had shunned America in the slightest ways. For example, in the start of the novel we see a news broadcast on Marjane’s TV saying that the US did not accept the Shah under refuge. And as a response to this Satrapi’s father mocks the US president saying that he was selfish and only cared about the profits that the US would make. Additionally, there is also another instance in where Marjane’s mother suggests that they move to the US as well, but then Marjane’s father responds furiously saying “Why should we move?! So that you could become a maid, and I a taxi driver?” This simple statement allows us to see how her father views certain aspects of the US thereby contradicting the claim that I made earlier saying that America and the American culture is viewed in a positive light only.
Pranay Boppana Question 2: There are so many references throughout the book to American culture like ACDC and her family used to bring all these products from American and used to go to all these parties that was unlike the people of Iran don't usually go to. Whatever Marjane was doing in Iran was considered illegal by the Iranian government because a lot of what she was doing was American and was frowned upon due to the recent Iranian Revolution. Most of the music that she was listening to was something that wasn't supported in Iran either. There are also many references to the ideologies that her parents have about education. These ideologies are reflective of the American education system. The whole notion of revolting against the government itself is very American. This idea of freedom is of itself a part of the American western ideals. Marjane is subject to these ideals but cannot express her self as she is suppressed through society. Not only are these ideals represented but there are also small references to this culture with the media and the material things that are shown throughout the book. Historically, Iran is very anti-western after the revolution so there are only a few references.
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