Thinking of the book as a portrait of a culture, with a focus on social practices and traditions, answer one of these questions:
- What does the book suggest about the role of religion in Iranian culture, especially in the lives of people like Marjane’s family?
- What does the book suggest about social class in Iranian society, especially, for example, in the story of the courtship between the family’s maid and their neighbor (34-37) or the distribution of keys to paradise to boys drafted into the army (99-102)?
- What are the roles for women in Iranian society as depicted in the book? How do Marjane and her mother and grandmother both play into and resist those roles?
Maya Garg Question 1
ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel, we see that religion is used as a framework to tame society, and make sure everyone follows the rules. As there are more revolutionaries joining the cause, and as the western culture is starting to become more prevalent in the east, religion is being used as something to keep everyone in check. A good example of this is when Marji says “But she was the one who told us that the Shah was chosen by God” (Satrapi, 44). The people in power used the devotion of the people for god, to get what they wanted. While this was relevant in the past and in the novel, we must ask ourselves, does this still happen today? And if it does have we become oblivious to it? This use of religion to attain power, and to keep the masses under control has been occurring since the middle ages, and has pervaded into some aspect of modern society, but religion has morphed into morality and ethics. The first part of this book that we have read so far has been really powerful. At 10 years old, we were not experiencing rebellions first hand, nor were we bound by such strict social lines, however through reading the book, it’s opened my eyes to a completely new way of life. In the states, we have so much freedom, and the minute there is a wrong doing, people speak up for justice, but in the society that we see Marji growing up in, protesters get quelled, and civilians can only speak up so much without getting silenced.
Religion has been used for an authoritative power to gain control of the lower classes. Although this does not happen as much as it did in the past, we still cannot overlook how some countries pose their leaders as a divine being. Although most countries do not explicitly state their leader is divinely supreme but they rewrite or edit their school books to make it seem like they are and brainwash children. This is similar to what Marji experienced during the Shah's reign where her school taught her one thing but the truth was another.
DeleteThis is very true. During the iranian Revolution, people were VERY EASILY persuaded when anything was put into the "word of God". They didn't question and it seemed like any education a person had was washed away in the face of religion, which was twisted to gain power. The fact that America is so diverse and that literary rates are high gives us so much freedom to pursue the things that we want. This type of religious exploitation still happens today: A LOT. In many Middle Eastern countries, the percentage of citizens that have an education is very low, which brings rise to people believing things that are said to be "in God's name". Good job Maya.
DeleteI think the use of religion to gain power and influence is very much present in modern society. One form of religious exploitation lies in the televangelists we see on television. These televangelists use their supposed devotion to God in order to preach and convince their listeners to donate money to them as part of "seed faith", the idea being that if one continues to spread his seeds, one day they will grow into harvest and the listeners would reap the rewards. These televangelists send continous streams of letters and messages to their subscribers, emploring them to send one or two dollars at a time, until they have extracted as much money as they possibly can. These televangelists become multi millionaries who can afford mansions and private jets.
DeleteIn 1974, Jim Jones led his 1000 strong Peoples Temple, a new Christian organization, into Guyana in order to create his "utopia" He had created a cult of personality around himself, telling his followers, "If you see me as your savior, I'll be your savior. If you see me as your God, I'll be your God". He preached against the evils of modern society and of the US government. He ran his utopia like a dictatorship, torturing and killing people who didn't agree with him or tried to escape. When a US congressman and some reporters came down to investigate in 1978, Jim Jones ordered their executions. After this incident, Jim Jones inspired his whole congregation to commit mass suicide. 918 people killed themselves with cyanide flavored Kool-Aid.
I agree with your points that elaborate on how religion is used by the government to exercise their rule over the people. This reminds me of how in China, the emperors used to use "the divine rule" to justify their actions by comparing themselves to the gods. Because they were "chosen by the gods" they could do whatever they wanted to and the people had to respect them. We see in Persepolis something along the lines with the massacre of many innocent people just because they stood up for their beliefs. However because god trumps all in the new Iranian society, it is justified.
DeleteI agree with you that religion is the structure that lays the foundation to their government. The government in Iran has bought the idea that hope with the reliance of religion will bring out the faults within society. I think our society is way different in the way we look onto religion as a free idea versus Iran it is fixed and we are actually not able to relate to her experiences and find them so profound in the idea of revolution and highlight what people's societies lack that make their efforts justified.
DeleteI agree with you that in the novel Persepolis, religion is used to keep everyone in check. In the novel it is used as a rule book to ensure everyone is following the rules properly. I also liked your question where you asked that does this still happen today whether religion is used to attain power. It's a very interesting question since today as well in some places people do use religion to attain power.
DeleteFrank Zhang
ReplyDeleteWhat does the book suggest about the role of religion in Iranian culture, especially in the lives of people like Marjane’s family?
An interesting point of the book is that there appears to be a very sharp distinction between Iranian culture as it originates from Persian culture and Iranian culture in combination with Islamic culture. Persian culture itself appears to be far more lax on the same religious rules that the Islamic Iranian culture follows as given from lessons learned in World History with the emphasis placed upon education and the way how Marji's parents are. Placing emphasis upon the behavior of Marjane's parents, they are very patriotic and love Iran very much while also keeping many of the old traditions such as Zarathustrian festivals such as the "Fire Festivals" of page 7, they place practically no importance upon the Islamic culture and both they and Marji see it as distinct when they complain about the historical Arabic invasion and then the imposition of Islam by their own government. In answering the role of religion in Islamic Iranian culture, it is largely a method of control and becomes the central framework for all of society and modes of thought. This ranges from social customs, to government, to public services, to the private individual life too. Although it is not portrayed in the book explicitly, it is also heavily implied that economic situations were influenced by religion too. However because of that there are largely two different types of Iranian culture, the difference appears to be the origin of why there is such a split in the current society of the book involving the people who followed the ideals of the Islamic Revolution closely and those who went against both the Shah's regime and the Islamic regime, both of which according to those who follow Iranian Persian culture most likely do not see that sort of society as being truly Iranian.
One thing to add is about how much the Islamic and Persian culture had actually crossed over such as the instance where the lady who used to show her thighs off to the whole neighborhood instantly decided to wrap up, would that be an indication of cultures mixing or of someone who simply went with the flow? (Remember the Persian philosophy of resignation?)
DeleteI really like this point about the cultural differences within Iran. Personally, I was very focused on the difference between the east and the west to think a lot about how even the people who adhere to Iranian cultural practices are different than those who adhere to Persian cultural practices. I think it is important to see that although ostensibly the Islamic regime had control over the culture, in reality, much of that culture was already Persian.
DeleteDheemant Dammanna - Question 1: What does the book suggest about the role of religion in Iranian culture, especially in the lives of people like Marjane’s family?
ReplyDeleteThe book shows how people are very superficial about religion in Iran. They use it when it benefits them and ignore it when it doesn't matter. For example, Shah Reza “organized a putsch to overthrow the emperor and install a republic” (Satrapi 19) and justified the insurrection as “God’s will” (Satrapi 19) and thought that “even if he isn’t, what can stop us” (Satrapi 19). It is evident that people are not as faithful as they make themselves out to be. Marjane’s facility is particularly of interest because they act as if they are super faithful to their cause of making Iran great, but they are actually very western. Every time, Marjane skips school she tells her parents that she skipped religion class, and her parents only got mad when they figured out that she skipped French class. To Marjane’s family, French was more important because it was something that could be used outside of Iran. The revolution overall showed how the people were originally not very religious, but they attributed the problems to the lack of religion, and when the religion came back, it was portrayed as the root of the evil. The people used religion as a symbol to rally around, but what they really wanted was not to believe in religion, but to use it for their own benefit. An interesting question to think about is, if religion is not what many of the people wanted, what change did they really want? An interesting example of this is the Iraq War. The justification was to take out Saddam Hussain because of the threat of chemical weapons, but many argue that the real cause was to increase American influence in the region to control the oil-rich middle east.
I agree with you that Marjane's family is extremely Western, despite trying to make Iran great. I think that they recognize the turn that the concept of religion in the country has taken, as it causes nothing but violence and discrimination. During the revolution, the people valued religion as the basis of their culture. However, people like Marjane's parents were unaware of the radicalism that would ensue. I think what the majority of what the people really wanted was to be rid of the corruption that occurred under the rule of the Shah, as well as to maintain their culture in a lot of respects. The radicalism might have occurred because people were afraid to stray too far away from Iranian culture again.
DeleteI agree with you that Marjane's family is extremely Western, despite trying to make Iran great. I think that they recognize the turn that the concept of religion in the country has taken, as it causes nothing but violence and discrimination. During the revolution, the people valued religion as the basis of their culture. However, people like Marjane's parents were unaware of the radicalism that would ensue. I think what the majority of what the people really wanted was to be rid of the corruption that occurred under the rule of the Shah, as well as to maintain their culture in a lot of respects. The radicalism might have occurred because people were afraid to stray too far away from Iranian culture again.
DeleteKyle Krautkramer - Question 3 - Roles In Iranian Society
ReplyDeleteBefore the start of the revolution, women had the freedom to do and wear whatever they pleased. However, as the uprising began to take off and the Islamic Regime gained power, these rights were slowly stripped away from them. They were expected to stay at home and take care of the children and men. The Iranian government took away their ability to hold high ranking jobs and forced them to wear what they considered proper clothing (the veil, dresses that covered their bodies, etc.) To their dislike, many women rebelled against the government by protesting the use of veils, thinking of them as restrictions rather than religious pieces of clothing. This is best represented when Marji states, "We found ourselves veiled and separated from our friends." (Satrapi 4) From this quote, the audience gets the idea that women felt separated by the new regulations placed upon them, yet somehow did not affect the men in society. While this is common in many countries found in many countries in the east, it can also be seen in many other contexts. In the novel, "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood, women are restricted from the right to read, and therefore become illiterate. While there are many other examples of women's lack of rights in this fantastic novel, the point is the belief of a higher power choose what they think is best for society. Like Marji, her mother, and grandmother, they decide to not play into these roles whether it be protesting the government or speaking out against these tyrannical powers. This ultimately leads me to the question, to what extent do restrictions dictate our actions?
Restrictions dictate our actions in many ways, whether we decide to follow the restrictions or rebel against them. The act of restricting a certain behavior, such as not wearing the veil, can create a desire to do exactly that, because being forced to do something goes against our desire for free will. Marji was often seen rebelling against the standards set for Iranian women, but she was also more moderate than some of her friends, especially after coming back from Europe. In what ways did she conform to female societal roles?
DeleteWith regards to question 1, What does the book suggest about the role of religion in Iranian culture, especially in the lives of people like Marjane's family? The Book suggests that religion is not a huge part pre-revolution. This is seen as religious customs are not huge and no one got angry over what religion you decided to practice. As we see, when the book progresses, religion becomes more and more important. It ends up becoming the basis for the Iranian government, requiring citizens to wear the veil. Essentially implementing Sharia Law. With Marjane's family, we see that this implementation of "hardcore" religion is not suited well for them. As they grew up in a time where Iran was very westernized, this sudden change of ideology does not catch on well. After the revolution, religion becomes synonymous with government, as a theocratic government is established, but with Allah as their force, not the Christian God. When Marjane moved to Austria, she did bring her religious values along, as we see her talking to God later in the book after the "Croissant" episode. She has not lost her connection, and neither has her family, it is just that religion does not play a huge "looming" part to their life as the government of Iran wants it too. In conclusion, the new Iranian Government wants religion to play a huge part in everyone's lives, this is in contrast to pre revolution Iran, when the government did its best to westernize the country, this entailing freedom of religion and religious practices.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this perspective. Mari and her family are religious people. However, they are not to the extent that the Iranian government emphasizes. We can see this in her move to Austria. Though she embodies Western values of freedom, she is still tied to Iranian customs and Islam. This brings the question of to what extent does Marji value/consider religion when making decisions?
DeleteEmma Gordon, #2, Social classes and stratification
ReplyDeleteThroughout Persepolis, Satrapi suggests that there was a great gap between social classes in Iranian society, and the poorer and lower class people faced stuggles due to social stratification that was inherent and normalized in society, to the point that most people weren't concerned with changing it. When Satrapi tells the story of her childhood maid, Mehri, we see that even Marjane's parents, who have been described as "avant-garde" ultimately say that "In this country you must stay within your own social class." (Satrapi, 37) In Iranian society there was simply no crossing the borders of social class, although Mehri and Satrapi's neighbor loved each other, when it came down to it the divide between the social classes was all it took to destroy their relationship. When Satrapi describes the young boys being drafted into the army, it at first seems only to be a tragedy driven by war that boys as young as 14 were being drafted for the war, but as Satrapi realizes that her cousing who is also 14 isn't being drafted, and talks to another cousin who explains the situation, it can be seen that the lower classes are being exploited for the war, and that their lives don't have as much value in Iranian society. As young boys are drafted, it is the boys from "poor areas" (Satrapi, 101) who end up being slaughtered on the front lines, while the boys from higher social standing are spared for a few more years. Even in their sacrifice, the poor are not treated fairly, they are fed propaganda about heaven and the "food, women, and houses" (Satrapi, 100) that they'll have once they die. Although the commentary on social classes in Persepolis may at times become lost in the imagery of war and Marjane's personal struggles, from early on in the book, when Marji talks about her desire to be a saint, the class divide inherent in Iranian society and culture is pointed out through young Marji's inability to understand why the social class divide exists, but clear ability to see the injustice of it.
Marjane does describe these events in such great detail. We get to understand what the class system was like pre revolution and post revolution. Being able to understand these differences plays a huge part in the story, as we get to see each character develop and leave the story as Marjane flies through her youth.
DeleteHi Emma, I agree that the regime takes advantage of the stigmas associated with lower classed citizens to recruit young, poor boys for the war. By emphasizing the greatness of life without repressive social classes in a divine and heavenly place, it draws poorer, less educated people towards gaining salvation. The regime abuses this power by playing on the role of religion in the theocratic Iranian government.
DeleteWhat does the book suggest about the role of religion in Iranian culture, especially in the lives of people like Marjane’s family?
ReplyDeleteReligion in Iranian culture became predominant in Iran after the revolution. The political upheaval caused a drastic change in fundamental Iranian principles from a Westernized society to a society that completely disregarded Western principles and rather focused on a more traditional Islamic way of life. However, religion was not as prominent in Marjane's home. Her parents were against the strict control of the Islamic government. In their home, Marjane and her family kept alcohol, played games, held parties, and listened to "westernized" music. Marjane's parents gave her the opportunity to live life free from the constraints of her society because they realized that the strict religious rule imposed upon them only hindered their daughter's societal growth. Her parents didn’t believe in the religious imposition made by the government and that is seen when Marji’s father says “If hair is as stimulating as you say, then you need to shave your mustache!” (Satrapi 98). This shows how religion wasn’t really of importance in Marji’s family life. Her family was more Westernized and believed in ideals that were different from what the government dictated. In my opinion, Marji simply followed what everyone else was following. Like Marji’s families, other families partied and drank, but some were also strict followers of the rules like the family that lived across from Marji. The difference in society contributes to the conflict in Iran and how the religious obligations that people had to fulfill changed the way people approached life.
Victor Kalev (Question #1):
ReplyDeleteAlthough many Western countries and cultures have disconnected from a nationally upheld religious system, there are still many states that utilize religion as a defining piece of their culture and an all-encompassing moral barometer. This can be observed in the Iran displayed within Persepolis, where Islam is deeply rooted within both their government and society. However, by utilizing it to dictate almost every facet of human life, the country’s rulers essentially establish a society in which personal freedoms are nonexistent or minimal at best. Despite the fact that many people begin to adapt to this strict regime, there is a handful of people within the novel that choose to live in opposition to the government and effectively, the oppressive nature of religion. The most important ones within the novel are Marjane and her parents, as they continually rebel against even the smallest restrictions of the Iranian Shah. One of the most apparent forms of dissent can be seen from Marjane’s desire to go to parties almost every night, be arrested, and then bailed out by her “ parents... and released” (Satrapi 306). Even though this is a rather terrible situation for either the mother or father to be in, they are willing to let her continue this reckless behavior for three major reasons: it allows the development of her character as an individual, enables her to momentarily escape the pressures of Iranian life, and effectively rebels against the brutal Iranian regime. In a way, this reminds me of when stereotypical American parents allow their children to go through strange style phases in their life (such as goth, hippy, etc.) so that they can completely mature and develop. It seems as though their abandonment of the ancient Islamic traditions did not harm them as individuals, since they managed to obtain their own morals and ethics that aligned with what they believed to be right. In this way, the novel and the “success” of the Satrapi family in avoiding harm serves as an underlying theme against the implementation of religion on a national scale. Do you think that religion still plays a major role in the development of a society? Should Marjane and her family continued to have been ardent supporters of Islam?
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ReplyDeleteI agree Sol that social classes and their influence on society is universal and pervasive through out Iranian society and in Marjane's perspective on life. In my opinion the lower class is often easier to control because of their lack or resources or education to make changes and challenge authority. Without these tools, they are trapped in a cycle they yearn to escape but are unable to. The maids in an average Iranian household would have been treated as second-class citizens. Due to the knowledge and respect of Marjane's father and his benevolence he is generous and considers all lives equal.
DeletePrompt 1.
ReplyDeleteIn the novel the role of religion is demonstrated to be great due to government oppression, but minimal in a personal sense. Of course Marjane says she talks to god multiple times during the novel, but the role he plays seems to be that of an imaginary friend, and more importantly, someone to blame for misfortunes. It seems that Marjane doesn't see god in a religious light, though perspective may be intentionally downplayed due to the fact that the novel is marketed to all audiences and isn't intended to be a religious story in any way. In Marjane's family religion seems to be also of minimal importance, with Marjane's parents discussing history and politics far more readily and shifting blame onto real world influences such as the US, the rebellion, and Iraqi bombers, rather than making these things out to be acts of god.
There are however, some situations in which Satrapi invokes God, or religiousness, such as when she wanted to be a prophet as a kid (Satrapi 12) and when she predicted the book she needed to study for her entrance exam into the French high school in Austria (Satrapi 226). These examples, however don't show an effect of religiosity on Marjane's life, just that she believed in god, something that people in even relatively nonreligious countries often do.
This type of casual belief in god as opposed to a fanatic loyalty espoused by the Iranian state has been the experience of my time in Finland. Always, if asked, people would say they believe in God, but there are never any real signs of piety amongst the people of Finland, something I believe is the case in most of Finland.
Concerning the role of religion of families like Marjane’s during her time in Iran: it played a part as the general beliefs of her parents, but her family was never portrayed as deeply religious. I definitely agree with you on that, Emil. Her parents readily discussed politics and never blamed God.
DeleteI think an important thing to clarify is the definition of religious. Is it being pious and adhering to a religion, or acknowledging belief in God’s existence and basic principles and laws? I would say Marjane shifted from the former to latter during her coming of age.
I agree that God was portrayed in a more imaginary friend for Marjane over a idolizing figure or such. I feel that although there wasn't explicit significance of Marjane emphasizing religion in her life, the "dedication to the nation's rules" served as the focus of what everyone should've been practicing, over the emphasis of religious practices, in Iran.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis is Zawad. Emil, your analysis on religion is superb as always. From what I believe, I agree that Marjane does not see God is a traditional light, and more of what you said "an imaginary friend", This could go along with the childlike tone the novel takes on. From my experience when I was young, I was very similar to Marjane where I thought God was like Santa, but he would send me to Hell if I was too bad. I would also thank or blame God, which showed my innocence as I did not know the complicated matters behind what was happening realistically. What I would want to know is in Finland, was there a different perspectives of God, or other deities, between children and adults? If so, what were they?
DeleteI think it's interesting that the government sought to make religion a large part of everybody's lives, but that this didn't necessarily occur on a personal level (as you noted). Does this mean that a government, no matter how strict, can't truly impose its values on its people?
DeleteZawad Quazi - Question 1
ReplyDeleteIran implemented strict Islamic values in its society to reinforce tradition that made them unique instead of succumbing to Western ideology. The role of Islam in Iran was primarily to remind the people of their origin and the people should pay respect to it, not adopt another custom that directly opposes some of the more traditional values. This is shown in the novel Persepolis, quoted, “Everything need to be revised to ensure that our children are not led astray from the true path of Islam” (Satrapi, 72). The extreme conservative did not want their society to be associated with the mainstream culture of Western ideals, and these conservatives are agitated that the new generation were practicing the popular custom instead of the one provided by their state religion. Enforcing Islam ensured a more religious society that honored their tradition, which pleased the traditionalist and upset the new generation. This is shown in the story of Marjane and her family were realizing that their state was oppressing them by implementing strict dress-code, or laws that are against expression oneself in entertainment. That brings up the question, in what cases does strictly implementing tradition help the society? Does it truly elevate the society, or at least bring any benefits? In the novel, there were many protestors that claimed that they were oppressed and were then shut down by the Iranian government. At that point, was the Iranian government wrong to enforce tradition into its society, was the procedure to turn Iran more religious implemented poorly? This is similar to a manga I have read called Naruto, where one clan wanted to enforce tradition but was rejected the masses, so they led to a coup and were defeated by the main government. In reality, it shows that although wanting a traditional society is not really a bad thing, but having a government forcing its citizens to follow their rules might lead to conflict.
Grace Hao Reply:
DeleteHey Zawad, I think you make a good point about the motives behind the strict Islamic values in its society and the role that Islam plays. I think strictly implementing tradition can never fully help society. It can help to some extent, but forcing beliefs and traditions will always lead to uncertainty and rebellion. I think some benefits can be seen. Having a set of enforces rules will lead to order within the country. I thought your connection to Naruto was a very interesting and creative connection!! I am curious about what YOU think the role of strictly enforcing tradition plays in society?
I really appreciated your connection to Naruto, it was very fitting in the situation you outlined. I think strictly implementing conservative values in a society is a recipe for short term stability especially when the strict rule is combined with oppressing opposition. However, I agree with you how in the long term it is impossible to rule people who fundamentally do not believe in the same cultural values and rule. I don't believe the religious rule was implemented poorly in Iran, but rather it was made too radical too quickly. A slower transition from a westernized society with the lack of oppression would have more easily convinced the already Islamic population to practice more conservative values.
DeleteHey Zawad!!!! I agree with you that the society instituted religious laws in order to prevent dissent. I think that a society can have certain traditional beliefs, but that they shouldn't strictly impose them on the people, and should instead let there be a diversity of ideas and opinions.
DeleteZawad, I think you gave great insight to this topic. Personally, I think there is a certain extent to which the government strictly implementing tradition helps society. On one hand, it maintains the culture that the country first started with and doesn’t let them lose their roots. This can be passed on through generations. However, when the government does this, they also take away the rights of the citizens as it does not allow them to develop as people and form their own thoughts at times. When the government strictly implemented the hijab in Iran, many women rebelled and protested against it as they were used to Western culture and being able to express themselves freely with their hair. Although tradition is good, it is also necessary to be accustomed to other cultures as well to see what your own opinions on certain topics are.
DeleteDear Zawad, I believe that you have analyzed the costs and benefits of governmental intervention in society's morals very well. In Iran, the new Islamist government attempted to enforce a heavy-handed approach towards everyday life, especially those that impact women and their role in society. I also like how you decided to judge whether or not such an action was good or not.
Delete- Stephen Liang
Grace Hao #2
ReplyDeleteThis book suggests that in Iranian culture and society, an extremely high emphasis is placed on social class. This can be seen in the relationship between Marjane’s family maid and their neighbor. It is evident that social class plays a major role in society as Marjane’s father addresses her status by telling the neighbor that he knows “that Mehri pretends she is my daughter. In reality she is my maid.” (Satrapi 36). The neighbor then goes on to express that he no longer wants to see her. The role of social classes is even more evident since the pages leading up to this scene were spent showing how in love the maid and the neighbor were. This just goes to show that in the Iranian society, they value social class more than they value emotional interest and love. Another example of this is seen with the key distributions to a promised “paradise” for boys drafted to the army. As a parent describes, “they gave this to my son at school. They told the boys that if they went to war and were lucky enough to die, this key would get them into heaven” (Satrapi 99). This also highlights social classes and social injustices as the sons of poorer families are drafted first. This is also a social injustice as the government and schools are making fake promises to the people of Iran. The difference in social classes can be connected to the story of the Princess and the Pea (to some extent). Just like in the Princess and the Pea, the social class differences between the girl and the prince keep them from being together. However, the difference is seen in the American culture of the Princess and the Pea. In the end, there is a happy ending and love prevails. However, in Iranian society, love does not prevail over social class and status. What sacrifices would you be willing to make for a loved one? Consider this question in the context of Western culture and then consider this question in the context of Iranian culture.
This is Zawad. I see that there are some interesting points you have made in your post. The relationship between the maid and the neighbor was particularly interesting as my extended family had a similar situation. In Bangladesh, my uncle's maid wanted to get married with a rich man, however with her social standings she was could not as she was considered a lower class citizen. Even though there are specific classes of people in Bangladesh, wealthy people really don't marry poor people. The maid was able to marry the rich man after my uncle declared that the maid was actually her daughter, thus increasing her social standing. It shows that even though the book is set in the 1970s and 1980s, the idea of social standings in relationships is still prevalent today. To answer your final question, I guess it would depend in which society a person grew up in. Since I was born in the US, I would say something cheesy like " I would sacrifice everything", however my cousins in Bangladesh would mostly likely say "Sacrifice.... why would I have to sacrifice anything".
DeleteI find it interesting that you bring up the priorities of the people between 2 abstract things that don't seem connected. By this I mean that the emotions of the people themselves are being overridden by class divisions, something that runs contrary to the western idea of romanticism where love is supposed to prevail despite, and sometimes because of the obstacles put in it's path as opposed to the obstacles being more significant in Iran. I wonder if Iranian classical and premodern literature are full of stories endorsing true love and the idea of love prevailing over obstacles like western literature is, think Romeo and Juliet to an extent.
DeleteHey Grace! This is Sahana.
DeleteI also answered this question and I really appreciate the way that you analyzed this question. The statement you said about how emotional interests and love are prioritized over social class is very true. In my response, I focused on the scene with the gold key to paradise for the young boys to join the army. This lower class is getting exploited despite being one fo the only classes that diligently followed the rules of the Iranian government. It seems as if nothing can help you under an oppressive regime if you are part of a lower socioeconomic class. Logic, emotion, fairness is overpowered by social class, at any given time. It is a sad way our society has been shaped. Why is this a characteristic of so many regimes and governments who have been under war?
Hi Grace!
DeleteYour analysis of how social status is very important in Iran is very unique. I really didn't recall/thing about the maid scene until I read your comment. Maybe if we take this a little further, we can discussed of the lack of fear Marjane has compared to her maid and how this might be because of how Marjane has a financial stable life compared to her maid. The fact that there'll be problems with liking someone who has more money is a problem itself. Society won't progress in a way due to the potential tensions between couples who are forced to marry within their class. It's sad that people in Iran have their futures set due to their social class and that the less educated people of the country are not given equal opportunities. In the end the society favored the upper class and ignores the problems the lower class had,
Dhannya John
Anitta Nitto
ReplyDeleteQuestion #2
The book suggests that there is strict social hierarchy within Iran’s class structure. Marjane explains how she read stories from her favorite author and how his stories explained a cold but hard reality. Satrapi had never enjoyed sitting in the her father’s Cadillac, but until she read the situation of young children who had to toil to earn money, she understood her guilt of having privilege. Often times we as individuals feel a similar guilt when we see someone with a cardboard poster on the streets. When we indulge ourselves we feel inexplicable guilt. Why is this so? Living in a privileged area such as Coppell it is extremely easy to ignore the reality of life in most of the world similar to how Satrapi did not understand the cause of her discontent until later. She explains her close connection with the maid and how “she took care of me” and “she played with me” (Satrapi 34). After Satrapi’s father tells the neighbor that she is only a maid, he exhibits a sudden disinterest, solely because of her social class. Her father says that “in this community you must stay within your own social class” (Satrapi 37). Social class hierarchy has been something that has been prevalent since the ancient societies such as the Mayans and Incas with the working class on the bottom and priests and kings on the top. It is fascinating to see how hierarchy has evolved within each society. What in particular evolved to create such a stringent class structure in Iran? In societies such as India, especially in the past, the women's family is expected to pay a dowry in exchange for taking in the woman. What similar practices translate to Iranian society?
Marjane's guilt stems from her being born into privilege and realizing she has not had to work for her higher status in society. Her connection with the maid is rather interesting as she grows closer with her to alleviate her own guilt of being privileged. It's selfish in a way as she feels she can feel better about her upper class life by becoming close with a member of the lower class such as a maid. The Iranian culture of social hierarchy stems from an extensive history in the Persian empire of different classes originally created by related work related roles in society in ancient empires.
DeleteAnitta, I like how you connected the age-old issue of class structure and sometimes the guilt associated with it to a variety of other examples, even one close to home with the example of privilege in Coppell. To answer one of your questions, I think that there is guilt associated with being of a higher social class or enjoying the privileges of one, if one feels as though they did not work for that privilege they are experiencing. Growing up, Marjane never liked to sit in her father's Cadillac, because it was not of her choice or effort that she was able to enjoy that privilege, or that other kids had to toil. In the same way, I think that this guilt affects us as most of us are teenagers who have not played a large role in providing for most of the privileges we enjoy.
DeleteHi Anitta, I really loved how you were able to tie in several aspects of the novel in addition to how this correlates to situations that occur today. As I was reading your post I was immediately struck with a realization how how similar India's culture is to this, and as I finished reading I saw that you had included India's society in your response which made me pretty happy. Perhaps another issue that is so prominent in India that is also present in the novel is the class division when it comes to love and marriage. It is quite interesting how so many people seem to place such high significance on a label that sometimes doesn't mean anything anymore. More specifically, I am talking about the caste system that is ever so present in India and how many marriages are based with large emphasis on caste over anything else. Although we have progressed so much as society we still seem to stick to some of the most outdated ideals. I mean this shouldn't even come as a shock considering some of the most popular weddings in the world happen with this social class division in mind! The Royal Weddings!! Prince Harry and the Duchess of Cambridge, Catherine Middleton had perhaps one of the most high profile weddings ever, and weddings like these are idolized like nothing else ever has even though they are based largely on the class, prominence, and wealth of the two parties. I find it quite interesting that we look down on people who prioritize class over love but at the same time idolize wedding that do this very thing.
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ReplyDeleteYutika Ineni
ReplyDeleteQuestion #1
Religion is shown to be an omnipresent motif throughout the novel. However, it seems to have varying degrees of influence on different people's lives, in a seemingly arbitrary manner. Some families are shown to be extremely devoted to God and claim that everything that occurs is an act of God. However, families like Marjane's don't seem to be as devoted as others. Though Marjane is surrounded by religious influences, she never says anything that implies that she believes that to the extent that other families do. In fact, as the novel progresses and Marjane faces more and more struggles, she seems to become less and less religious, possibly because of the realization that God will not save her or help her in times of struggle. The only time we really see Marjane showing signs of religious affection is at the beginning when Marjane is a child and claims that "she [was] the last prophet" (Satrapi 10). She talks about her holy book and how she wants her family to celebrate the traditional Zarathustrian holidays. Though the reader initially starts to think that the narrator is very religious, it slowly turns into the realization that she is just a shallow young girl, who is using her "faith" as a juvenile method to blame her misfortunes on.. The phase slowly passes as the political situation gets worse and she realizes that regardless of her faith to God, her family is still suffering and as a ten year old, Marjane is facing war and death, something that God can't protect her from. This is shown later on in the story as Marjane is in Europe and uses religion as a last resort to pass her classes. This is a perfect example, exemplifying her view on religion. She doesn't necessarily not believe in Islam, but it doesn't play a large enough role to be consequential in her life. It is merely just something that she uses as a last resort; she doesn't depend on religion, it is just a small influence in the background, which shows how the attitude towards religion was for most people at the time. Though on the outside, everyone seemed to be following the laws, religion was not as large of an influence on individual lives as the new government made it out to be. This begs the question, to what extent, in the portion of Marjane's life that we don't see in the novel, is influenced by religion?
Mercedes: Yutika, I am inclined to disagree with you. Although Marjane refers to her family as “modern” and “avant-garde,” she also considers herself to be profoundly religious (Satrapi, 10). As you mentioned, she firmly believes that she is the last prophet, and Islam encourages her to ponder ideas of glory, aid for the weak or elderly, social equality, et cetera. I think that she was a devoted adherent of her religion, and that concept can be rather easy to confuse with a conservative hard-liner in Persepolis.
DeleteYutika, I agree with you on some aspects, however, like Mercedes said, Marjane was very religious as a child. Though her family was "modern," Islam was definitely a huge part of her life. She even stated that she believed her teachers, who preached that the Shah was chosen by God. It's also important to understand that prior to the revolution, people voluntarily adopted Islam. They weren't forced to be religious as opposed to post-revolution Islam. Similarly, Marjane voluntarily adopted religion before the revolution, but as the revolution rolled around and she was forced to "increase" her level of "religiousness", the resentment towards it also grew. That is a natural human response. We don't tend to like it when something is forced onto us, but that doesn't mean we abandon it. Like you said, Although Marjane grows increasingly less religious, she still doesn't abandon Islam altogether.
DeleteInteresting Analysis by the way...
I find your analysis of the role of religion in Marji's life very interesting, because I never fully understood Marji's relationship with god when she was a child. Thus, your explanation that Marji was "using her "faith" as a juvenile method to blame her misfortunes on" helps me understand a substantial part of the book much better. Furthermore, in answer to your question, I believe that the portion of Marjane's life that we don't see in the novel is influenced by religion to a great extent in a way that does not heighten her belief in a higher power, but actually in a way that diminishes it.
DeleteMurtaza Neemuchwala
ReplyDeleteQuestion 1: What does the book suggest about the role of religion in Iranian culture, especially in the lives of people like Marjane’s family?
After the Iranian Revolution of 1979, the role of religion in the Iranian culture completely changes. Religion is now used by the new administration to impose new strict laws regarding social practices. All the women have to be veiled to cover their hair. In Marjane's family, however, the social changes brought about by the religious rule play a lesser role. In Marjane's family, the women are allowed to wear western clothes, drink alcohol, and listen to western music. Marjane's family's willingness to not follow the rules imposed by the Islamic rule comes from a core belief that the Islamic rule imposed is just a mere front for people to get into positions of power and oppress any political opposition. For example, when Shah Reza was trying to get into power he “organized a putsch to overthrow the emperor and install a republic” and justified it as “God’s will” (Satrapi 19). Similarly, when the Islamists wanted to get into power they also justified as God's will citing the loss of traditional Islamic values to the westernization of Iranian society. We can further see that Marjane's family is not as strict when it comes to following Islamic practices when Marjane skips school. Her parents allow it as she says she is skipping religious class. Her parents feel this class is imposed by the government and won't help her outside this harsh Islamic society. They only become upset with her once they realize she's been skipping French class. They do believe French is something she can use in the real world and are disappointed with her cutting class. This stark contrast between the role of Islam in the society versus in the Marjane household is seen when Marjane's father says to another religious man, “If hair is as stimulating as you say, then you need to shave your mustache!” (Satrapi 98). He is opposed to the idea of a veil and his personal beliefs against the strict society are seen with him challenging the conservative values. All in all, the role of religion is very strong in every aspect of society in post-revolution Iran, but Marjane's household tries to minimize the conservative Islamic influence in their household and in the lives of their child. Stimulating questions: To what extent is the role of conservative Islamic values in society a front for certain people in the Islamist party to come into power? What influences empower Marjane's parents to openly voice their disagreements with the conservative Islamic society?
Murtaza,
DeleteI appreciate how you used multiple lenses to analyze the text effectively. The question you posed really made me reflect about how the revolution was a front for certain people to gain power. I had not thought about the personal gain that many politicians and religious leaders were privy to as a result of the revolution.
It's interesting that the revolution was just a way for certain individuals to rise to power. It's interesting that this has been a common theme in history, where leaders gain support for one cause, but then exploit their power once they achieve a high position.
DeleteHey Murt,
DeleteAfter reading your reflection I realize that their is this hidden perspective from Marji's parents. You continuously talked about how Marji's parents dismissed religion in different instances and why they dismissed it each time. This is really important because I think Satrapi is showing us what religion was doing in Iran and using her parents to show what a lot of people did not realize. No one at the time was realizing that this religion was being exploited. If the reader payed attention to all the details, as you did, this new perspective of religion can be uncovered. A question I would propose is what role does religion play in uncovering the truths and roots of this Revolution.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSyed Farris Ali
ReplyDeleteQuestion 1
In the novel Persepolis it is suggested that the role of religion in the Iranian culture was to condition the public to follow the structure the government was enforcing. After the revolution that occurred in Iran Islam became prominent and very important in many people's lives. The Islamic religion and values are treated as guidelines on how everyone in the countries society must be. In the novel the government is utilizing Islam in order to justify and dictate the countries new rules. Although there are people like marjane and her family who are against and resist the strict Islamic ruling. They continuously not comply to the major role Islam is placing on Iranian culture by not conforming to Islamic traditions. Throughout the novel we see Marjane family have many issues with her school and oppose the culture they are forcing her to conform to. A good example of this is when Marjane says “After a little while, no one took the torture sessions seriously anymore as for me I immediately started making fun of them”(Satrapi 97)this quote portrays Marjane and her classmates resistance towards the culture that being taught in school they go so far that they become expelled and their parents are brought in. Once their parents are brought in they are defending them for their behavior in class. To what extent does religious oriented government create animosity within the public? This reminds me of anime/manga called Fullmetal Alchemist where the government is mainly science and alchemy orientated and implement laws and rules and shunned any religion which caused the public to essentially revolt as a response.
To answer your question, I think that governments influenced by religion may create animosity amongst the people when the rules or laws implemented by them affect the personal lives of people. This is, of course seen in the family life of Marjane, and could translate over into other situations. I think that these governments do not have to be influenced solely by religion in particular, but any government, which infringes on the choice of the people, will foster an environment of animosity, mostly towards the government, and sometimes towards each other.
DeleteKevin Shi
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2:
It is also shown in the book that society is highly divided along class lines. In the story of the courtship between the Mehri and their neighbor, the neighbor is initially drawn in by her allure, whatever it is. However, when he slips Mehri a letter, it is revealed that since she is merely a maid, she cannot read or write. Instead, Mehri enlists the help of Marjane to read her the letters and write her own letters. In these letters, she fashions herself as part of Marjane’s family, when in reality, she is their maid. When Marjane’s father goes to tell their neighbor of Mehri’s social status, the neighbor is immediately turned off and halts his courtship, breaking Mehri’s heart. Additionally, the keys of paradise are given to poor boys living on the streets to turn them into suicidally fanatic soldiers fighting for the false dream of paradise. These keys are not given to the higher class. The reason they are given such keys, I believe, is because they are the ones who have the most to gain and the least to lose through death. By giving them these keys to the poor boys, who are illiterate and brainwashed by religious fundamentalism, paradise after death and martyrdom is the ultimate dream. However, the story with Mehri also highlights how some may not have agreed with the strict delineation of classes. For example, Marjane does not understand why Mehri cannot marry their neighbor, and when Marjane’s father attempts to explain the class distinctions and how the marriage was never meant to be, Marjane quickly dismisses the notion of classism. The story about the keys reminds me of the story about people in sub-saharan Africa who believed that a particular medicine made by this witch doctor could make them invincible. When they tested it out by shooting each other, many were killed, and the witch doctor was executed for making bad medicine. This makes me wonder to what extent people are willing to risk their lives for some unknowable religious beliefs. Furthermore, I find myself questioning the nature of human societies. Class distinction has existed in almost every country on this Earth. Is classism merely an artificial construct, or is it part of the very nature of societies? Furthermore, evidence for the Mehri story can be found with the quote: "Because in this country you must stay within your own social class" (Satrapi 41). We can also see Marjane's resistance to class discrimination with her outburst: "But is it her fault that she was born where she was born???" (Satrapi 41).
Kevin, you mentioned Marjane’s father’s speech about the distinct social classes in Iran and how Mehri is forbidden to wed their neighbor. Do you find it in any way hypocritical? His family is fighting for the reestablishment of Western values, which dictate that through hard work and discipline, you can be almost guaranteed to succeed economically. But in that scene, he cautions Marjane to avoid interaction with the other classes, and that progression through them is nearly impossible. I find this anecdote so intriguing.
DeleteSimran Sethi
ReplyDeleteQuestion #3
What are the roles for women in Iranian society as depicted in the book? How do Marjane and her mother and grandmother both play into and resist those roles?
The roles of women in Iranian society takes a quick turn as the uprising of the Iranian Revolution begins. Before the uprising women are able to wear whatever they please as well work and do whatever they pleased. However once the revolution began their rights and the things they were able to do and contribute to society was taken away from them. The government forced them to be dressed in what they considered 'proper' clothing such as veils, headdresses, and all black that covered their bodies. They did this as they believed it would help the men in the society not be tempted by the women. Women were also forced to stay at home take care of the children and the rest of the family. Many women rightly revolted against the Iranian government and had many rallies to protest for their rights. Many other women who were scared to stand up to the government that dramatically, wore their hair outside their veils and added patches or pins to their clothing as small symbols of revolt. When Marjane went out on the streets with her new pins and jeans that her parents brought back for her from Spain she was encountered by woman who screamed at her to "Lower [her] scarf, you little whore!!" and they asked "aren't you ashamed to wear tight jeans like these!" Even with these small instances of revolt we can see how many children and women would get in trouble my government officials or women who were very strict followers of the law. I wonder how much can the women actually revolt if they are under this strict of a government? Why are the men not helping the women fight for their rights back? Do they not care? Is there anything in our own society in the United States that you can relate to Marjane's life and her turmoil as a young girl during the Iranian Revolutions? Personally I believe the veil can connect back to dress code in the United States public schools, as they believe girls shoulders are tempting to other boys in class.
Sally Kyong:
DeleteHey Simran! I agree with how the roles of women in Iran has changed with the rise of the Iranian Revolution. I also agree with how the women were restricted from wearing things that were not set by the Islamic Regime. I understand how women needed to cover themselves up so that the men in the society were not tempted by the women. I want to ask you what you think about this. Do you think it was necessary for the Islamic Regime to set these rules on women regarding their clothing?
I think that many fell victim to the power of peer pressure, and that is why many men and women alike did not help those who are resisting the fundamentalist regime. People can easily fall into the group mentality, even if it doesn't necessarily exist. This might not be true of the past, but today, many Iranians actually view the people of the United States and Western culture fairly favorably. If this was true in the past, people may have simply feared the repercussions of outright resistance and so simply fell in line with the regime. In this way, many of the oppressed likely turned into the unwilling defenders of the new fundamentalist Iranian government.
DeleteSimran, you discussed how women were afraid of the regime, specifically the repercussions of not abiding by its rules (e.g., wearing the veil). I encourage you to consider, however, that some of them were also proponents of the Islamic Revolution. Do you think it is possible they felt liberated, rather than unjustifiably oppressed, by the new dress code? Why or why not? Secondly, from this same point of yours, I can also understand why the movement was so successful—complacency!
DeleteSimran, I agree with you in the sense that women are being oppressed in Iran during the Iranian revolution, but I also have to agree with what Mercedes had to say about how some women were okay with it and were encouraging it. The people who stopped Marjane and scolded her for being improper were women, which shows that both women and men are responsible for the strict policies that are being implemented AND enforced. I find this situation some what similar to dress codes in high school. As we have been able to clearly see, girls are unable to wear many clothing pieces as they are improper and can potentially distract other students. In a sense, this is similar (on a much smaller and less intense scale) to the Iranian policies. The dress codes are able to be enforced due to the fact that most female students do abide to the dress code. If every girl was to rebel against the dress code, they could make a difference, but there will always be a group who follows the rules as they believe in the purpose of them.
DeleteSim,,
DeleteI did not think of the similarity between the veils and the classic "three finger" school dress code policy. I agree that they were similarly (and in my opinion, ridiculously) justified as ways to "prevent male temptations". In reference to your curiosity about the extent to which the women were able to revolt under the circumstances they faced, the risks of imprisonment or execution they faced obviously limited their ability to show outward aggression or disagreement to the policies. I relate this, as well as your observations on how women subtly indicated signs of revolt by wearing patches, to the Handmaid's Tale and how the term "Mayday" was used to identify people who opposed the government. I agree with Mercedes's and Nicole's points about how views on the dress code—and women's rights as a whole—were not unanimous, so men and women alike were both victims and propellants of the regime's rules.
3. The role of women throughout Persepolis is illustrated as a gradual decline in the influence that they have within Iranian society and the general standing of women in other parts of the world. The veiling of women is symbolic of the censorship of women on an individual level, leading them to be treated more as units of a certain supply model rather than unique beings. The opening panels of the Novel (Satrapi 7) are the best representation of this idea that Iranian women, although possessing unique thoughts, are forced to wear attire that makes them appear as more homogeneous, seeing the female body as being distracting to men. Women are also shown to be undermined in places other than Iran as well as seen when Marjane studies abroad and begins to date a man named Markus. Marjane discovers Markus in bed with another woman when Marjane comes to his abode to surprise him (Satrapi 236). Satrapi is appalled by what she sees, storming out after yelling at Markus, causing Markus to reciprocate in anger as well. What is interesting to note about both these circumstances is how both of these scenarios relate to the treatment of women as sexual beings. Satrapi makes an overt effort to show the differences in mindset towards women’s sexuality and how it is censored or encouraged depending on where a scene takes place. It’s interesting to note how both scenarios in a way limit women to their sexual aspect rather than intellectual. The first scenario prohibits women’s expression in fear of distraction that their bodies provide for men. The second scenario sees a man viewing women as sexual objects, with his cheating on Marjane an act indicating that he sees Marjane for her sexual utility rather than the intellectual enlightenment she might provide through conversation. This brings to question whether or not Satrapi was intentional in showing the idea that the defining factor of women to men that is pervasive was a sexual one, regardless of the setting be Iran or Europe. Was Satrapi intentional in showing this, and how intentional are authors in evoking the majority of the messages that are contained within their writing? This question relates to an ongoing issue within the consumption of media that is ambiguous, the issue being how certain aspects of storytelling can be indicative of certain messages. Is different interpretation based upon a cultural difference?
ReplyDeleteI believe that different interpretations of women are based upon a cultural difference, mainly because I come from two different cultures where women are treated differently. In India, women are treated as subordinate to men and a women's life should revolve around getting married and having kids. In the United States, it is not as strict, and girls can focus more on their education. So I do believe that different interpretations are based upon cultural differences.
DeleteCultural Lense
ReplyDeleteQuestion #3: What are the roles for women in Iranian society as depicted in the book? How do Marjane and her mother and grandmother both play into and resist those roles?
Throughout history, women have had the traditional role of staying at home, taking care of the children, and supplying with family with the essential necessities such as food, clothing, and other services. Iran after the Islamic Revolution 1979 is no exception, women were pretty traditional and in a way, more oppressed than women in western countries at the same time. In Marjane Satrapi's graphic novel, Persepolis, it is explained that women were expected to take care of the household in addition to following the demands of their husbands. Not to mention that they were expected to follow the Islamic religious values and norms such as wearing a veil that covered their hair and forehead, and a dress that covers almost their whole body. Even though some women are shown to not like the expected norms for women in Persepolis such as Marjane herself, her mother, and her grandmother, the traditionalist women in the other hand oppressed those who did not met the expectations. Marjane herself was a resistance to the expectation of these roles because even as a child, she “didn’t really like to wear the veil, specially since [she] didn’t understand why [she] had to’ (Satrapi 3). Her mother, in addition to herself, was also a resistance to the expectations for women in Iran at the time because she did not only used to wear clothes that went against the norms for women in Iran, but she was also a protester, a photographer took a picture of her during a “demonstrations against the vei” and it went viral in European newspapers (Satarpi 5). Her grandmother was also a resistance figure because she was related to the previous Iranian ruler in a way because her husband, or Marjane’s grandfather was once the prime minister of Iran, but she still advised Marjane to fight for herself. In a way, this reminded me of my sisters and the women in my family in comparison to Mexican traditional family roles. Normally, women stayed at home and took care of the children, however, today more and more women have started to become independent and take jobs; thus, the average age at which women have kids at a later age. This brings me to question, how do traditional family and gender expectations hinder one from accomplishing what they really wish to do? And to what degree are gender expectations influenced by religion?
It's difficult to determine how gender roles are influenced by religion, because it may be that religion is simply a reflection of the society that it forms in. For example, Christianity was immensely popular with the plebeian class but was persecuted early on in its existence in the Roman Empire, likely because the pagan cults were more suited to the culture of the wealthy and warrior classes in the society. Christianity only became more popular as the Roman Empire continued to disintegrate over the centuries and as wealth gaps and class tensions increased. So, it really seems like a chicken or the egg question to me that really has no definite answer. The best I can say is that both influence each other.
DeleteElieser!!
Deletei think that religion can play a role in influencing gender expectations because I know personally, growing up Catholic, at church we would listen to the Ministers would sometimes talk about how women are to serve men and men are to respect and thank women for taking care of them. I know for many people, growing up with these influences taught them that they should be the ones taking care of the men rather than going out and making a life for themselves. In this cause I think that gender expectations can be influenced by religion, but I cannot say that this is the truth for any other religion or even for my own religion. This is simply what I saw growing up and how I perceived it.
Rithvik Gunda- Reply #4
DeleteHi Elieser. The question you bring up is really quite interesting as I've always thought about how societal expectations are what drove the standards of a "traditional" or "non-traditional" family. But it brings me to another realization: societal standards had to have been derived from somewhere- and I know think that "somewhere" could quite possibly be from religion. Now although I am not that familiar with the Christian or Islamic faith, I can answer to do best of my knowledge in regards to the Hindu faith. It is my belief that there are some ingrained messages that might loosely correlate to men being a tad bit more superior to women in the Hindu religion -again I emphasize "loosely correlate"- but it isn't something that is in the stepping stones of the Hindu faith. But I do think that society is set up the way it is because many people are afraid of change and new possible outcomes that they cannot predict. Which is why I would believe that many are so adamant on following the more "traditional" beliefs even if these beliefs sometimes have little to no reason to back it up.
Dwija Dammanna, #1
ReplyDeleteIn the book, the government of Iran uses religion to justify its severe policing of the public. The revolution in 1979 led to a revival of fundamentalism in the country. However, the book offers a different perspective as well. It demonstrates that religion is not as large a part of Iranian culture as one may believe. Though the government may impose laws based in religion on people, many of the people themselves are not fundamentalists. This is especially true in the case of the wealthy. For example, on several occasions, Marjane's family speaks against the strict religious laws both in their own home and by participating in demonstrations. To what extent does a government conform to the will of the people and to what extent do people conform to the will of the government? Marjane's family is quite liberal and allow Marjane to explore her own path in the world, whether it be studying in Europe, or listening to rock music. Unlike many in Iran at the time, Marjane was encouraged to make mistakes to learn what was best for herself. As a young woman in Iran, she would have been denied many opportunities to be independent, as she was in Europe. Marjane acknowledges that "for an Iranian mother, [he] mom was very permissive" (Satrapi, 131). Her family allowed her to pursue a relationship with a man even though. Although religion is not as large of a part of Marjane's family as the government wants it to be, it is still prominent. This can be seen in the book when Marjane claims that she is the next prophet. Even at a young age, she is aware of the role of religion in her family and society.
This is Farris I agree with you that Iran uses the islamic religion to justify their laws and government and I thought it was very interesting how you added a different perspective of how the islamic religion is not a large part of Iranian culture even though a large amount of people supported the islamic traditions and culture that went along with the laws imposed.
DeleteHi Dwija!
DeleteTo answer your question, I believe that although individualism is important and that despite our imagination and wishful thinking; the majority of human beings comply with societal rules that help with our daily lifes and for our best interest. For an example, cars stop at red traffic lights, wages, etc. However, as culture changes and time progresses one thing remains the same and that is a government cannot exist without the support of the people. If people disagree with the way the government is acting, they will react to it in forms (violent and non-violent) which we did see in the Iranian Revolution. However without the government, people will not have order and nothing efficient will be accomplished. Therefore my answer is that the government and the people both need each other in order to work efficiently and each side is willing to give time and effort to listen to each other.
1. Religion appears to be a means of controlling the people. This is made apparent with the quote, "the educational system and what is written in school books, at all levels, are decadent. Everything needs to be revised to ensure that out children are not led astray from the true path of Islam" (Satrapi 73). This shows that Iranian leaders sought to exercise their power to ensure homogeneity and promote a blind faith in them by the public. In essence, social changes are imposed upon the people, and they are discouraged from having divergent thoughts. This is reminiscent of the Negro Act of 1740, which was in response to a slave revolt (Stono Rebellion), and was instituted to restrict slaves' activities (to prevent further rebellion), such as learning to read, earning money, and growing their own food. In Iranian society, religion was used as a means of justification for leaders' fulfilling their personal agendas. Shah Reza, for instance, sought to overthrow the emperor and create a republic, and justified it as being "God's will". The power of enforcing strict religious laws to control the general population is evidenced by Marji's mother's fear of the laws. She tells Marji, "if anyone ever asks you what you do during the day, say you pray, you understand?" (Satrapi 75). This shows that the people were indeed controlled by the religious laws and were unwilling to openly oppose them, perpetuating the status quo. This brings the question, to what extent should we place faith in religion or our leaders? Was Marji's mother right in trying to remain quiet and follow the strict religious laws, or should she have protested it?
ReplyDeleteAbishek,
DeleteI think that Marji's mother was able to rebel in her own way. She participated in demonstrations and was outspoken about her opinions on the veil. She did follow the law, though I believe this was as a result of wanting to stay safe rather than out of agreement. Marji's mother afforded her freedoms that many other Iranian girls did not have.
Abishek,
DeleteI think that it is important to put faith in religion (if you choose to. Not everyone has to put faith in something they don't believe in) because when you put faith in religion, it allows for some sort of guidance. Of course guidance can come from things other than religion, but it acts as a guideline for people. I do believe that once people have gotten on their feet, they should be smart enough to not praise blinding, but rather take the things they have learned and figure out their own beliefs whether that corresponds to their original religion. I believe Marjane's mother did this as she still believed in her religion, but she took her knowledge and made her own decisions, which was how she ended up rebelling against the Iranian government.
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ReplyDeleteSally Kyong; #3; Roles for Women
ReplyDeleteIn the novel, The Complete Persepolis, by Marjane Satrapi, the roles of women change from before the start of the revolution to after the rise of the Islamic Regime. Women were able to wear what they desired to wear before the start of the revolution. Also, the girls were able to learn the same thing as the boys before the start of the revolution. Things started to change when the Islamic Regime started to gain power. Women were restricted in what they could wear, and if they didn’t follow the rules, then they got punished. In the novel, Marjane talks about how “[she] saw violence with [her] own eyes” (Satrapi 76). The people who were punished were the people who showed opposition to the Islamic Regime. Also, when the Islamic Regime came to power, women had to wear the veil to cover their hair up because “women’s hair emanates rays that excite men” (Satrapi 74). They also had to wear a long dress that would cover all of their body parts. Not only did the clothing changed, but also women were restricted from holding a high ranking job. Instead, they were expected to stay home and take care of the kids and their husband. Marjane, her mother, and her grandmother resist those roles by protesting against the Islamic Regime and by not following the rules that the government has set for them. The Islamic Regime was basically creating their own ideas about what women should look like and what they should do. This reminds me of the novel, The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald because it reminds me of how women had different roles than men. Women were expected to stay home, take care of the family, and just be beautiful all the time. This aligns with the rules that were set by the Islamic Regime on women in Iran. I want to ask this questions to my peers, what are some gender stereotypes of both women and men?
I think it was interesting how you made the allusion to The Great Gatsby, but I feel slightly different about your interpretation. I think you can draw parallels between women in Gatsby and women during the Iranian revolution. However, its important to consider that women in Iran were forced to quit their jobs to take care of the family. It was the government that was mandating the reform. On the contrary, in The Great Gatsby, it was the society that indirectly mandated women's roles.
DeleteHi Sally,
Deleteto answer your question, gender roles and stereotypes are heavily influenced by our society and have a set of ideas of how we're expected to act, speak, dress, and conduct ourselves based on our gender. Historically, women's stereotype was based off the expection of always dressing in feminine ways, having manners, and being nurturing. Men also faced stereotypes of being expected to be strong, bold, and aggressive. Every society and culture have gender role expectations, however they can be very different. They can also change over time. An example of this is the color prink used to be considered masculine (US) while blue was considered feminine. The general stereotypes for both men and female generate from personality traits, domestic behaviors, occupations, and physical appearance.
Dhannya John
Sally,
DeleteI like your connection of women in Persepolis to women in Gatsby, but I agree with Abishek and his point on how more parallels can be drawn between women in Gatsby in the 1920s and women in Iran during the 1970s, in which non-traditional beauty standards and women's movements prevailed. In response to your question about gender stereotypes, specifically ones that used to and still do exist, women are expected to be prim and proper (in other words, well-mannered), soft-spoken, emotional, and tender. Men are more commonly associated with assertiveness, strength, dominance, and independence.
- Courtney Chen
Hey Sally,
DeleteGreat analysis of the difference in clothing and roles of men and women before and after the war. I like your connection to the Great Gatsby at the end. I thought it was very fitting given the context of the oppression of women in Iranian society. I think this also connects to the Handmaid's tale where Offred was also considered to be a mere object in a highly male dominated society. The effects of the bible on the handmaids correlate with the effects of the Quran on iranian men and women. As for the answer to your question, I think, like you said, women are stereotyped to be housemaids while men are stereotyped to be workers, leaders, etc.
~ Harsha Jagannathan
In the book there were many effects of the Iranian revolution that were very evident. Marjane’s entire life was altered mainly due to this cultural shift (the revolution). Marjane was not one to fall in to the social stigmas of the community and this was seen from her childhood. She was never one to conform to standards (wanting to be a prophet since she was young) and always went against what her parents would tell her to and not to do. “I want to be a doctor.” (Strapi 9), as Marjane stated this claim to her parents, she didn't really mean it because in the back of her mind she knew that she was thinking about being a prophet. She lied to her parents about it. Overall Marjane is a strong willed soul and she is determined to be herself and not conform to the status of the revolution, even if that means that she has to escape. The book suggests that there are severe social classes in division in the society. Do you believe that some of these classes may subtly be seen today in America? What about in Iran? The less educated people are the ones that are many many changes in the society that occur during the revolution. Marjane and her family were educated folks, but the remaining population greatly suffered during this time. When Marjane comes back to Iran after her flee, she sees the changes and describes them vividly. The people are blindly accepting whatever the government tells them “The Shah confiscated everything he owned" (Strapi 23), therefore they are the ones that are blind to what is happening in the society. i think that this was aslo happening in other areas of the world until reciently. In the book this is seen as the “lower” class in the book as these classes are more well defined now. The Shah is seen as the one with the ultimate power as he took everything away from people when the revolution started. He is part of the highest social class. When the boys were drafted into the war, they were tricked into being able to go to a better place. “They hypnotize them and just toss them into battle.”(Strapi 101). Does this situation sound sismilar to another situation in history? Possibly the Holocaust? This it shows that the upper classes exercise ultimate control over others and they have the say in the most influential decisions. Instead of educating others that are less educated, they use their knowledge to manipulate others which results in a show of how the social classes acted in that time. The higher social classes did not care about the lives of others and they sent children into battle knowing that they would die there. This just went to show how people were seen in social classes, as once you were thought to have been born in a class, you could not get out of that class. Mehri and her neighbor could not get married or be together even if they wanted to solely because of the difference in their social classes. The girl was not as wealthy as the man and thus she was not to marry him. Women were seen as being inferior to men and that they were to be submissive to the man.
ReplyDeleteSahana
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2
The structure of the social class in Iran was what it was universally. Ranging from poor to middle class to government officials, the social strata was even more magnified during the Revolution. In the story of the distribution of keys to paradise to boys drafted into the army, the concept behind the key was so foreign and attractive to these young boys as the world that they grew up were lacking in those elements. The government was using their oblivion to exploit them which leads us to ask the question of how moral is that that class who would follow the rules of the government the most diligent in spite of fear, is the class that has to pay the price. In addition to this, the use of a plastic key with gold paint symbolically shows the fakeness and trickery of the government. The description that Shahab gives Marji and her mom about these boys is grueling as he explains that “they hypnotize them and just toss them into battle. Absolute carnage.” (Satrapi 101) A description as detailed and visualized as this is rare within the novel. Satrapi refrains from trying to describe an aspect to leave room for interpretation. However, the question arises about the significance of her choice to describe this scene explicitly. Does she believe that readers do not realize how the lower class was affected by the Iranian Revolution. Was this part of her story of Iran and not just herself? This exploitation is not only seen in the Iranian Revolution but in many others historical instances, specifically in 1940s to 1970s China. The Communist Party of China put out propaganda that convinced especially lower socioeconomic citizens that the leader were working for the people and that they were entering a society where they were going to be celebrated. This version of brainwashing created years and years worth of turmoil that can not be erased from history.
Hey Sahana, it's interesting that you brought up the question of why Satrapi chose to use such explicit depictions of the violence in the war because it went on to really highlight the class difference apparent at the time in Iran. Satrapi draws attention to the unjust system of drafting boys into the army to sacrifice their lives by comparing it to the much easier lives of the Satrapi family up in their apartment in Tehran as Marji would go off and party with her friends, listening to punk rock music while the lower class would die in the war.
Delete-Rudransh Dikshit
Mercedes Hoyos, Prompt 1, Religion in Iranian Culture
ReplyDeleteMany Iranians, specifically those conservative, had qualms about the Shah’s rule during the 1970s. He had established himself as an indispensable ally of the West, as exemplified through his regular counseling by foreign ambassadors or opening of the oil industry. Thus, in their eyes, he had also failed to protect and preserve their country’s marvelous culture. So, to do so, they set forth the Revolution; it was meant to abdicate the supposedly decadent, oppressive Shah. Ironically, the Islamic Republic of Iran replaced him. It stringently regulated people’s behavior and forbade all interaction with Western culture, including music and clothes. Although Iran purportedly became more religious under this regime, they discarded Islam’s more good, charitable pillars and instead used it to control almost every single facet of people’s lives. This change can be observed within Marjane's family. At the beginning of Persepolis, Marjane considers herself to be profoundly religious, even seeing herself as the last prophet. Islam’s stories and mores encourage her to ponder personal glory, aid for the elderly or weak, companionship, social equality, and end of suffering. But, as times goes on, she loses sight of her faith. This decline is most notable after the death of her uncle, Anoosh, when she yells at God, “Shut up, you! Get out of my life! I never want to see you again!” (Satrapi, 74). Moreover, her family maid, whose son has been given a faux gold key (guaranteeing his entry to Heaven if he fights), confesses, “If it’s come to this… Well, I can’t believe in anything anymore…,” (Satrapi, 103). I wonder, how can we truly determine whether a state is endorsing a religion to be able to fully domineer over its people or inspire true values in them? Around 2014, I read an interview with former President Barack Obama in The Washington Post. He had stated that the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, was not Islam, but rather a group that had cruelly and pervertedly interpreted the religion. So, in Persepolis, it is possible the regime is not necessarily imposing the entire religion of Islam onto Iranians like Marjane, but instead just distorting facets of it so that it can attain more control.
I don't believe that a state should ever officially endorse a religion. First of all, it grants greater legitimacy and greater power to religious leaders over those in the nation, which is bad for a free society. It's even possible for leaders of state to enact policy based on religious grounds, which is the antithesis of a secular society that creates laws and policies based on reason. In principle, religion shouldn't be the domain of the state; it should be the domain of the family or community, but never a part of policy. So for me, a government that endorses a particular religion is either trying to gain more legitimacy or prestige from its people, or it's trying to gain more control over its people.
DeleteAnd obviously, my stance is heavily biased, so take my comment with a grain of salt please.
Delete1- What does the book suggest about the role of religion in Iranian culture, especially in the lives of people like Marjane’s family?
ReplyDeleteIslam was definitely a major influence on Iranian culture. Although the family was very modernized, religion still played a big role in Marjane’s life to the point where she declared she wanted to be a prophet on page no. 7 in the novel. She was heavily influenced by Islam and seemed to embrace it. She also had frequent imaginary “conversations” with God, which shows that Marjane was, at one point, were emotionally connected to her God.
Religion also played a huge role in Iranian society in general. In the novel, we come to know that teachers teach their students that the king (shah) “was chosen by the God” (page 17). Religion is reinforced at all points of the children’s lives, and the first page of the school book talks about how the king has been appointed by God. On page 69, when Marjane “shuns” her God, she says that she “was lost, without any bearings”. Religion was such a big aspect of Marjane’s life that its sudden departure almost made her feel dysfunctional.
As the revolution rolled around and soon islamic policies were being implemented, religion started to play an even bigger role in people’s lives. In a country, where Islam was voluntarily opted and followed, choosing to be religious was no longer an option. Religion was thrust onto people forcibly, which lead to widespread disapproval. This can be seen in the novel on page 71, when Marjane’s mother exclaims that “soon they’re actually going to force us to wear a veil.” Although Marjane’s family is religious, the family still doesn’t want certain aspects of religion to be forced onto it, like the veil.
How did the views on religion change after the Iranian Revolution? If Islam was a part of everyone’s life until the point of the revolution , then what changed? Why was religion no longer welcomed by some, even if its intended purpose was to make Iran stronger? How did religion affect people’s sense of patriotism?
Aishwariya, I agree with your analysis of the revolution and the Islamic impacts on the culture, however I have to respectfully disagree with your claim that religion was such a major part of Marjane's life. I think that her childhood values were not particularly Islamic and more focused on her patriotism to her country. This can be displayed in her and her dad's celebration of the F-14 fighter plane attacks, instead of sadness at the idea of war and death. Furthermore, the parties that her and her family have involve alcohol and all things forbidden, showing their disdain and lack of integrity to the Islamic religion, and more rebellion to the revolution instead.
DeleteTo answer your question "if Islam was a part of everyone’s life until the point of the revolution , then what changed," what changed was choice. For Satrapi's family specifically, none of the women in her family previously wore any sort of head covering for anything besides prayer prior to the revolution, but after the revolution, they were expected to keep one on at all times. Was Satrapi's family any more or less religious than another, that's arguable and not a decision that I believe anyone is informed enough to make, but that still does not mean that they didn't follow Islam. They just chose to follow the parts that they thought were important, and suddenly, they lost the power to chose.
DeletePrompt 1
ReplyDeleteReligion is the whole basis of Iranian culture and Politics. The first revolution happened due to too much religious reform in the government, while the other, the Islamic Revolution, happened because of too little religious reform. For people like Marjane Satrapi and her family, the two revolutions had immense and tremendous repercussions. Marjane and her family were quite liberal and open-minded, compared to most of their peers at the time. They did not mind that their daughter listened to rock music and had wild and worldly dreams. However, after the Islamic Revolution, Marjane's family was forced to act in accordance with the religious reformations. They often complain about all of the new rules they are being forced to follow. However, I find it interesting that during the actual Islamic Revolution, they often went to protests that were usually extremely dangerous. Many of them were so dangerous that people often died. They were firm believers that the Shah was not fit to rule the country and all the reforms must be made in order to have a fully working society. However, after the reforms, I like to believe they resented the Islamic Revolution and they probably wished that the Islamic reforms had not been present. I, also, think this parallels our society as well. At one point in time, we were not much concerned with political correctness. However, as the generations evolved, we became obsessed with being politically correct, almost to a fault. Now, many people mock this obsession. We often wish this obsession did not even happen.
The way you relate the political revolutions in Iran to the changes in American culture we are witnessing in contemporary times is very interesting. Perhaps this hints at one of the larger themes of the novel, that many rebel for the sake of rebellion, regardless of what the outcome will be.
DeleteIn my opinion, during the revolution in the book, religion seems to be taking over everyone - not just the government. Marjane’s mother comments specifically on one of their neighbors who was “wearing a miniskirt, showing off her beefy thighs to the whole neighborhood” the previous year, but then started to wear the chador (Satrapi 75). The distinct change in the role of religion is shown here, specifically due to the revolution. This makes me wonder - did the revolution really have that much power over the people or were they conforming out of fear? Marjane’s family, however, does not obey by the religious laws of the land, and they find their own personal and collective ways of rebelling. Despite alcohol being banned, Satrapi describes the “gallons” of alcohol her and her family had, and even admits to her uncle having a “genuine wine-making lab in his basement” (Satrapi 106). This shows that even though alcohol was forbidden by the state and their religion, they did not abide by the same cultural and religious norms as everyone else. This rebellion reminds me of the Prohibition Era as they obtained and drank alcohol illegally, and had parties in secret in order to escape authorities. This is ironic as when the power outage goes out, Marjane’s aunt abandons her baby to save herself out of fear, and even when her family get caught on the way home her mother begs authorities to “forgive [her father]” for drinking. The irony here is that despite their beliefs that they are rebelling, their fear resides ultimately with the authorities who they are trying to rebel against, therefore giving them more power. This brings up the question of to what extent does rebellion truly coexists with fear?
ReplyDeleteQuestion #1
DeleteRudransh Dikshit
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: The book suggests that social class in Iranian society is highly stratified and there are great differences between the lives of the upper-middle class that Marjane and the rest of her classmates are accustomed to and the lives of the poorer classes that are associated with Mrs. Nasrine, Marjane’s maid. Looking more in depth into the distribution of keys to paradise to boys drafted into the army, this practice was only common for the lower classes of boys rather than those associated with higher socioeconomic status. Those of higher status are able to live in their penthouses in Tehran and enjoy their sheltered life from the fighting, to a certain extent, while the poor have to risk their lives and will most likely die as a martyr fighting for their nation. More analytically, the ‘plastic keys painted gold’ are lustrous on the outside but worthless inside, which may symbolize how the new government promises a better Iran, but many people don’t have faith in the regime and thus leave the country. Looking at class as a part of culture, it is evident in Marjane and her mother’s treatment of her maid that there is a mutual respect for both classes in the public eye, as shown by the two of them consoling Mrs. Nasrine on page 150 and Marjane bringing the maid tea. The government on the other hand, sees class as something the people should be divided on, risking the lives of those in the lower socioeconomic classes to serve in the holy war against Iraq. Although the lives of the young children are at stake, they’re not mature enough to understand why they are fighting the war aside from the potential to go to heaven and live amongst all the pleasures one could think of. This sort of brainwashing concerns the adults as they realize that the schools of the lower classes are serving as a medium for the government to find soldiers to fight in the front lines of the war. Much like dying a martyr for Iran in the war was advertised as a path to the afterlife, the Japanese advocated for dying for the defense of their nation until the last breath and if that time comes, rather commit seppuku rather than die at the hands of the enemy. This comparison between the Iranian and Japanese propaganda makes sense to a certain extent because both nations were in war against most other major nations of the world and required the whole population to pull their weight if they truly sought victory. With this in consideration, which social class is affected the greatest in times of war? Would it be the wealthy, as they have a tendency to pack their bags and leave; or would it be the poor, who have to risk their lives on the battlefield?
I think its interesting how Satrapi includes Marx as one of the intellectuals in her graphic novel as well as tell the story of the maid. It gives us insight into how Satrapi viewed relations between people, with her primarily viewing relations through that of a socio-economic lense.
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ReplyDeleteNicole Do #3
ReplyDeleteThe roles of women in Iranian society depicted in this book consists of cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the children and men. The Iranian government no longer allowed women to hold high ranking jobs and forced them to wear what they considered acceptable attire such as the veil and full length dresses.. Women are not given many rights, as they are segregated from men and given less opportunities. Many women rebelled against the government by not wearing the veils, as they believed the veil was a way to suppress women rather than the religious piece of clothing the Iranian government claimed it to be. Marjan’s mother resisted Iranian roles by not wearing her veil, as she worked to maintain her own westernized style. We can see this specifically when Marjane’s mother’s car broke down and Marjane and her father were on their way to pick her up. She ran to them crying about how two bearded men had insulted her for not wearing her veil and being westernized. (Satrapi, 74). Here we see her resisting Iranian roles, but only a page later, we see her telling Marjane to tell everyone that the only she does is pray, so that society sees her as a good citizen. This is an example in which Marjane’s mother succumbs to Iranian society, as she does not want to be judged by outsiders. Similarly to her mother and grandmother, Marjane has tried to not fulfill these Iranian roles. In addition to not wearing their veils, (even though Marjane did wear hers when she was young) they participated in protesting the government and voicing their own opinions in order to resist government suppression. What kind of example does Marjane’s mother and grandmother set for Marjane herself? Does the mixed signals from her mother confuse Marjane and alter her individuality?
Courtney Chen
ReplyDelete2 - Social Classes in Persepolis
Persepolis tells us a lot about the social expectations in Iran, specifically class and gender roles. Despite the fact that Marjane’s parents are revolutionaries who supposedly abide to Marxist thought, they have a maid who cooks and cleans for them and essentially serves as “the help”. When Mehri, the maid, falls in love with the neighbor and writes him love letters, Marjane must read and write the letters for her, indicating that members of the lower class do not receive the same educational opportunities as the wealthy. Furthermore, when Marjane’s father exposes Mehri as a servant, the neighbor no longer wants to see her, and she is inexplicably replaced with another servant. Their love is then explained as “impossible” because they “must stay within [their] own social class” (Satrapi 37), revealing that members of different classes are expected not to intermingle. The wealthy, inclusive of Marjane’s family, enjoy luxuries such as Cadillacs and maids, while the poor, such as Mehri, are subject to servantry, if female, or combat, if male. This is exemplified when Marji observes that boys in her class are drafted into war but makes note of the fact that her cousin is not, whom we can assume is of higher status due to Marjane’s implied wealth. Those who are drafted are given a “key to Heaven”, which is, in other words, the government’s way of euphemizing and glorifying their death as honorable and even desirable. The government’s willingness to send poor young men off to war indicates that they are the expendable members of society. Similar to how Mehri was soon replaced by another maid, the men who die in war are swiftly sent to Heaven with VIP golden keys and replaced like interchangeable parts. The lower class in Persepolis is subject to traditional gender expectations, educational disadvantages, and societally perceived inferiority.
As previously mentioned, Marji’s family supposedly believes in and fights for social equality but somewhat contradictorily has a maid who is treated with inferiority. I correlate this to a common controversy I see on media in which people who claim to be environmentalists are shunned for using plastic water bottles, or those who claim to love animals are shunned for eating meat. Does advocacy have to be all-in or all-out, or can you honorably support a cause even if you don’t always align with its principles? Do you view Marjane’s parents as more admirable (due to their desire to eliminate social inequality) or hypocritical (due to their contradictory ownership of a maid)? Why and how does Marjane's perspective on social class differ from her parents'?
Teja Devanaboyina, #2, The Depiction of Social Classes in Persepolis
ReplyDeleteThe novel, Persepolis, suggest that social classes are a very important aspect of Iranian society. This is first vividly depicted in chapter the Letter. in this chapter we are introduced to Mehri and she was basically Marji’s caretaker from a very young age. We learn that “she was eight years old when she had to leave her home and work for [Marji’s family]” (Satrapi 34) because her family had to many children to take care off with the amount of money they had.” Though she is treated well at Marji’s home she is still inferior due to her inability to read and write, as well as her economical and occupational statuses, putting her in a lower social class. This inferiority is only further depicted when Mehri’s love interest finds out she is Marji’s maid. When “Hossein gave all the letters he had received” (Satrapi 37) back without hesitation, the situation underscored the amount of emphasis Iranian society placed on social class, especially in marriage when one’s social status affects another’s status. Do Iranian social classes in the 1980s have a greater importance when considering marriage rather than just general society? The emphasis of Iranian social classes is also further explained upon with the keys to paradise for the boys drafted into the army. During this chapter Mrs. Nasrine explains to Marji’s mother that her son was told, “in paradise there will be plenty of food, women and houses made of gold and diamonds.”(Satrapi 100). Thus the government is trying to exploit the lower class boys into joining the army by promising them “riches” the would have never dreamed of having. What struck me as weird, however, is the fact that her son was 14 years old and believed this. Would you believe something like this at 14? This is kind of similar to the tactics used to make the children in Nazi youth groups to believe by promising them honours and other various rewards.
Harsha Jagannathan
ReplyDeleteQ2. What does the book suggest about social class in Iranian society, especially, for example, in the story of the courtship between the family’s maid and their neighbor (34-37) or the distribution of keys to paradise to boys drafted into the army (99-102)?
The Persepolis offers examples of division of class with Iranian society. The example of the failed love of Marji’s maid shows that it was a social norm to marry people of their own class. The book suggests that people considered social classes very important in the identity of a person and, from Marji’s perspective, highlights the oppression faced by people in Iranian society. The book also indicates the dowry system practiced in Iran, a sign indicating that women were mere objects that could be exchanged for money.
In the case of the golden key given to young boys, it shows the regime had used religion as a tool to manipulate the people to fulfill their intentions. As described in the book, “They come from the poor areas, you can tell… first they convince them that the afterlife is even better than disneyland, then they put them in a trance with all their songs… it’s nuts! They hypnotize them and just toss them into battle. Absolute carnage.” (Satrapi, 105)The book indicates that, during the war, it was the poor and the lower class who lost the most. The rich and the elite were able to pay their way off or go into hiding. But the poor, who were uneducated, did not realize the trap the government had set up and so fell right into it. This also indicates that the government considered young men to be mere objects that could be easily exchanged for a plastic key painted in gold.
Such devaluation of lives reminded me of the handmaid’s tale and Offred. In the book, Offred and the handmaid’s are considered to be mere wombs/pleasure objects that could help men satisfy their needs.
These inquiries have led me to question: who determines the value of a person’s life? Who gets to decide whether one life is worth more/less than the other? How so?
Your questions point out the corruption of the Iranian government. In no case should they be able to judge the value of life based off the sole reason of social class. The value of a life should be judged by the person. This obviously is all very subjective, but I would bet that most everyone would agree with me on this issue. In the Handmaid's Tale, Gilead just like the Iranian government, decides the value of women, just like the poor, lower class boys. However, I would disagree that the women are treated with the same value as the poorer boys. The Iranian government sees the lower class as means to fight the war without affecting the economy greatly, since the rich hold a lot of money. In the case of the Handmaid's tale, women are at least seen with some value, since most women cannot produce children due to biological effects.
DeleteSudeep Reddy
ReplyDeleteQuestion 1-
Religion plays a major role throughout the book. Since this book focuses on the shift of culture following the Islamic revolution in 1979, we see a cultural comparison between the traditional islamic and western ideals. We see that the islamic views want women to be more traditional by wearing chadors and not wanting women to be influenced by western culture. This is best seen when Marjane runs into great risk by not wearing a chador when going outside and wearing her leather jacket, which is directly from western influences. This is mainly because the conservatives in Iran want to preserve the Iranian culture and not let their country succumb to the heavy influences by countries like the United States of America. The religion also plays a prominent role in their culture by being a big part of their government. Being a theocracy, Iran’s policies are heavily affected by their religion since their supreme leader must use the quran to justify their policies. Forcing their people to abide by the traditional islamic policies even if they do not want to. This can have severe negative effects in the future when the people get tired of following the far more conservative beliefs. On the other hand Marjane’s family seem to be far different from other families because they do not seem to be religiously devoted. They don’t follow all of the islamic practices that other families do. We see that Satrapi’s family also celebrates some zarathustrian holidays. Also when Marjane is thinking about becoming a prophet, the image that comes into her mind is zarathustra, the prophet who was the founder of zoroastrianism. I think Marjane always keeps in mind some of here islamic beliefs, but she realizes that for the most part she needs to be independent and can’t rely on a religion to help her.
Harshi D.
ReplyDelete#3---What are the roles for women in Iranian society as depicted in the book? How do Marjane and her mother and grandmother both play into and resist those roles?
Her mother and her grandmother both teach Marjane to be strong and independent. Marjane shows this by being brave and rebellious. Their portraits don’t fit into the stereotype associated with the Iranian women, which was women who do exactly as they are told. They are basically the opposite of the this, making them a juxtaposition as to how women are seen. Marjane’s mother, as seen on page 5, represents this by fighting for the rights on women. She acts as a role model, but at the same time, she also plays to this role of women being afraid of men, because she ends up dying her hair. Similarly, Marjane seems like she’s brave and is confident in what she wants to do and who she is, but she also try to hide it like her mother. This is shown when she changes her answer to the question, what do you want to be, when she changes her answer from a prophet to a doctor. Marjane’s mother may be very different different from the stereotype, but also, she is seen as a very maternal and feminine person throughout the book to Marjane. Marjane’s grandfather is dead. But her grandmother is able to do everything without him. This shows her independence. The most important thing Marjane’s grandmother did for her was help her stay grounded. She would remind her of her ancestors who fought for freedom. This causes Marjane to respect her grandmother and respects her grandmother’s opinion so much, that the last things he wants is to get yelled at by her. Also, at the end of the book Marjane says that “Freedom had a price”. This shows how much value her grandmother had on her life, leaving with the thought of, “Was freedom really worth not being able to see her grandmother again?”.
Sneha Korlakunta
Delete1. What does the book suggest about the role of religion in Iranian culture, especially in the lives of people like Marjane’s family?
It seems as though religion was an underlying theme in the book, because though various symbols of Islamic religion are present and even highlighted in the novel, such as the veil, the actual relationship between Marjane’s family and their religion is not often explored. In the beginning, it is clear that in Marji’s parents’ quest for modernity, they began to view their religion almost as an oppressive force. This viewpoint gained momentum following the Islamic Revolution, and the veil, as it was required by the new regime, became a symbol of their repression and a barrier between them and modernity. For Marjane herself, her belief in God and his power was very strong in the beginning, to the point that she was convinced that she was the last prophet (Satrapi 9). However, over time, the Islamic Republic’s attempts to force their religious practices onto the populace cause Marji to lose her personal religious beliefs. As a child, she had "wanted to be justice, love, and the wrath of God all in one”, but by the end of her childhood, she was more than willing to partake in her parents’ discussions of history and politics, joining them in levying blame for unfavourable occurrences onto real world influences such as the US, the rebellion, and Iraqi bombers (Satrapi 9). If the revolution had been to enforce modernity upon the Iranians, do you think Satrapi would have relied upon religion to help her through the difficult times? Was it a result of the particular circumstances of her upbringing that led Marjane to become relatively unreligious following her devout childhood? Religion had once brought hope to Marji, but once it was turned against her, she was unable to maintain her faith and turned to drugs and substances to forget what she could no longer find a way to accept. Similarly, in The Handmaid’s Tale, Offred was forced into a life of supposed piety, but her own rebellions focused more on the restrictions placed upon her due to her femininity. How do Satrapi and Offred deal with their respective situations similarly, as the former dealt with oppression from her religious compatriots and the latter was faced with oppression from her fellow females?
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ReplyDeleteSolomon Mathew #1
ReplyDeleteReligion was 50/50 influence in Tehran. Lots of people were modernized and leaned towards Western Style influences by the Shah while many extremists tended to desire traditional Islamic restrictions in society. While Satrapi’s parents were in Iran’s context, liberals, they deplored the actions of the Shah against Iranian society. However, things seemed to have gotten worse after the Revolution. As an extremist group took over the government in Iran, freedom became heavily restricted and the discontent for the veil and religion began to grow, as shown by Satrapi. It was once the culture to be stylish and fashionable, now the style was to dress in all black to prevent sexual stimulation of men. In Satrapi’s family, religion did not play a big role. Satrapi’s family was not religious, her father did not practice a patriarchy in the household, her mother or grandmother did not wear a veil etc. Satrapi’s dad was a photographer, which is also very conflicting because a traditional job would have been being a priest or pursuing a doctorate at the university. This further exemplifies the liberalism of Satrapi’s family. Even further, Satrapi’s family is very patriotic, fighting against the Shah. Satrapi’s family while patriotic saw Islam as something different. It was a kind of separation of church and state like in the United States. The government had no right to impose religious restrictions and new cultures in their lives. While Satrapi grew up desiring to be a prophet for God, she later rejected him after the death of her uncle Anoosh, symbolizing that she may have rejected religion forever. “Shut up you! Get out of my life!!! I never want to see you again.” (Satrapi 70). As Satrapi matures, her boldness to resist the controls of culture imposed by religion grows. She fools around with her burqa, talks back to the teacher, makes inappropriate jokes in class etc. She even has the courage to walk around extremist influenced Tehran in a punk jacket, jeans, and punk shoes to buy American music. It makes me wonder as to why Satrapi was so brave? Was she young as to not consider consequences? Or did the death of Uncle Anoosh and detachment from religion make her stronger?
I agree with what you have said, Marjane's family is considered very liberal and the Iranian Revolution was something that put constraints on the families social values. Like the women in the family were forced to wear the veil and forced to be very conserved in the community. All the things that they used to do before the Iranian Revolution were something that were no accepted in the community anymore, like drinking or smoking.
Delete1) What does the book suggest about the role of religion in Iranian culture, especially in the lives of people like Marjane’s family?
ReplyDeleteAns: Religion is both an important part of the Iranian culture and a major restriction on the Iranians in the book Persepolis. It plays a huge role in Iranian families such as Marjane’s. The dictatorial and fundamentalist government is the most obvious example of such. The book portray the Iranians as completely religious regardless of being forced to follow religious ways or not and hence are devout to their religion. The clash between religions was one of the subjects that showed the importance of religion to those people. Even though Marjane and her parents were against the government, when the "arab threat" came to jeopardize their country's future, Marjane stated "The second invasion in 1400 years! My blood was boiling. I was ready to defend my country against these arabs who kept attacking us." (Satrapi 79). Marjane was ready to defend her nation even though she hate the government and wants to see them crumble. Another example of the religious extremism and how it affected people's life was explained by Marjane's boyfriend when he stated what happened to his two friend's which were thought to be homosexual "Darius had his nose broken. Nader got a few kicks. He limps... but they came out of it well, considering. Here, if you are homosexual, according to the law, it's capital punishment!" (Satrapi 290).
1) What does the book suggest about the role of religion in Iranian culture, especially in the lives of people like Marjane’s family?
ReplyDeleteAns: Religion is both an important part of the Iranian culture and a major restriction on the Iranians in the book Persepolis. It plays a huge role in Iranian families such as Marjane’s. The dictatorial and fundamentalist government is the most obvious example of such. The book portray the Iranians as completely religious regardless of being forced to follow religious ways or not and hence are devout to their religion. The clash between religions was one of the subjects that showed the importance of religion to those people. Even though Marjane and her parents were against the government, when the "arab threat" came to jeopardize their country's future, Marjane stated "The second invasion in 1400 years! My blood was boiling. I was ready to defend my country against these arabs who kept attacking us." (Satrapi 79). Marjane was ready to defend her nation even though she hate the government and wants to see them crumble. Another example of the religious extremism and how it affected people's life was explained by Marjane's boyfriend when he stated what happened to his two friend's which were thought to be homosexual "Darius had his nose broken. Nader got a few kicks. He limps... but they came out of it well, considering. Here, if you are homosexual, according to the law, it's capital punishment!" (Satrapi 290).
Evan Dobbs Q1: Prior to the Islamic Revolution, Islam was very prevalent, having been the official state religion in some form or another for centuries. Even so, Islam was not so heavily enforced as it was after the revolution, especially in the early twentieth century, as Western powers sought to gain control of the country’s oil reserves and liberalized the country in the process. Marjane mentions that “...deep down [she] was very religious”, but contrasts her nature with that of her family’s by saying that “...as a family we were very modern and avant-garde.” (Satrapi 10) Here she suggests that prior to the Islamic Revolution, people were beginning to modernize, and that religion was taking a sort of backseat in the lives of Iranians. Furthermore, she specifically contrasts her family’s modernism with her religiousness, implying that the two cannot coexist. This idea that modernism and religion are opposed to one another oddly enough supports the stereotype that Satrapi is trying to dispel by writing this book, that is to say that Iran is an underdeveloped country that values strict religious values more than modernism. All of these ideas beg the question as to whether or not Iranians truly are forced to choose between their religion and modernism. Is this truly an issue that Iranians would face regardless of their government, or is it due to the government’s strict policies that this issue has arisen? Satrapi seems to suggest the former, but I find myself disagreeing with her, as Muslims in the West have been able to adapt their religion to modern times fairly effectively. That this issue is so acute in Iran implies that religion plays a different role in Iran than it does in other parts of the world, most likely in the way that Iranian culture as a whole is based upon Islam, and so for any part of the role that religion plays in people’s lives to change the entirety of Iranian culture must change with it, something that is heavily resisted by the government as well as many of the people.
ReplyDeletePranay Boppana Question 1: The role of religion was something that was constantly recurring throughout Satrapi's Persepolis. People like Marjane who are not used to following all these Islam values are subject to following these values that are forced upon her. Especially after the Iranian revolution there was an emphasis on following strict Islam values and there was anti-westernist movement. The book shows how many people in Iran are very religious and that there are only a few cases of people that are like Marjane's family. For example, her father was not a priest and had a job that was not common in Iran culture. Her family is not as conservative or strict as the other families in Iran. Marjane's family's willingness to not follow the rules imposed by the Islamic rule comes from a core belief that the Islamic rule imposed is just a mere front for people to get into positions of power and oppress any political opposition. Although her family is like this Marjane herself does not think like this, she believes that she is more of an independent person and she should be able to do whatever she wants and should be able to do whatever she wishes. Her family is more of a liberal people and after the Iranian revolution were held back..
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